Help- ATP or FBO

[Clocks]

I don't expect to get into the the Airlines right away after training.
But crossing fingers 3-4 years after I am done, I will be.
Out of all the schools I checked out, ATP gives the most Multi time.
does that constitute as something when trying to find a job as CFI compared to folks without the multi hours?

If you're going to be teaching in a twin it may matter. A flight school may require X hours of multi time for insurance reasons. People have posted around here before that they were unable to teach in their flight school's twin because they only had 16 hours multi for example. But you can probably still buy 100 hours of multi for under $10k without any problem, so from a cost-only stand point it may still be cheaper to go to an FBO.

 

[Douglas]

ATP gives the most Multi time.
does that constitute as something when trying to find a job as CFI compared to folks without the multi hours?

I don't know if "gives" is the right word, you can buy multi time anywhere.
If you don't plan on going to the airlines until year 3 or 4, what is the rush in buying all the multi-time? You can let your students buy the hours during those years.
If you want to do ATP, you can do it, many do.
But i feel like i need to reiterate that twin time is not pure gold time.
All you need is the mins, not the most.

Also, in respect to your question about flight instructing with nothing but a MEI cert and the possibility of a job.

1. To instruct in a twin, you need to have five hours PIC in that make and model, not category/class.
i.e. Training in a seminole for your whole training has cost you your arm, leg and first born; a flight school hires you but they have a Piper seneca, you will need to rent the airplane and acquire that time, minimum of 5 hours to what ever their insurance says.
To be an MEI, you will need 15 hours PIC multi, along with 10 hours of non pic time it took to get your commercial multi-add on, in all my own personal experiences that has been enough time to be covered by insurance, assuming I rent that specific make/model airplane for 5 hours of pic time.

Basically, heck ya the flight school will hire you with a low 25 hours of twin time. In return you rent their twin for 5 hours.
Even if you have 100% twin time, you will need to rent this new Make/Model.
So I personally see no advantage in this scenario.
Now, if you want to go to work for ATP afterwards, that is a horse a different color.


basically there is no right or wrong way, just a more expensive way or a less expensive way. It doesn't really matter as long as in five years you are flying airplanes and not selling shoes. :bandit:

 

[Lancer151]

Basically, heck ya the flight school will hire you with a low 25 hours of twin time. In return you rent their twin for 5 hours.
Even if you have 100% twin time, you will need to rent this new Make/Model.
So I personally see no advantage in this scenario.
Now, if you want to go to work for ATP afterwards, that is a horse a different color.

With the economy in the can and our President-elect just said the worst is yet to come, I'm guessing there will be more instructors than students.
Wouldn't the flight school hire the applicant with most hours, not a person with the mins?

ATP would be my choice except for their pricing... so this is just really hard to decide.
If I just go to an FBO for PPL, I'd have to buy more hours just to meet ATP's requirement to get into the Career program

Whether I go to an FBO (http://www.justiceaviation.com/training.php) or ATP, there is no guarantee of a job as an instructor. But I feel as though If I get it done quicker, I'll be at least 1 step ahead of the person who will start training at an FBO same time I start at ATP.

 

[Douglas]

Wouldn't the flight school hire the applicant with most hours, not a person with the mins?
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But I feel as though If I get it done quicker, I'll be at least 1 step ahead of the person who will start training at an FBO same time I start at ATP.

Flight schools do not look at total time flight hours or single or twin, they care about experience as a flight instructor. Though most all places will hire green instructors, they don't care about the total time, just that you have the CFI certificate. Flight schools can hire you with out much risk to themselves, and if you are a poor instructor, they can get rid of you just as easily, with out much cost.

It really depends on the cycle, during the hiring boom of '07, flight school were just looking for warm bodies to hire. Now they can be picky, but still most people seeking CFI jobs are noobs.
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Don't forget you just because you went to ATP, you didn't get done faster than a guy at a FBO. We have plenty of people who do ppl in 4 months, instrument in two months, commercial in 6 months then go on to get their CFI. You are right though, typically, people can't keep themselves focused on flight training and end up taking longer at an FBO.

heck, I started flight training in '02 and didn't become a CFI until '07. One of my old co-workers went to ATP in june and came out to work at my FBO last January. I don't regret my route though, I had fun along the way.

Have fun and good luck in your training.

 

[Lancer151]

Thanks guys for all your recommendations

I decided to go the local flight school route.
Its what I can afford right away.
Now I just have to find the right school...

How important is ground school?
Some schools I checked out doesn't include ground school.
Could I just read a lot and just ask my instructor lots of question?

 

[DE727UPS]

I had a formal ground school for my IFR, but it wasn't really necessary. The rest I got from reading on my own. If you take time to hit the books and do a DVD course, the CFI can fill in the rest of the blanks.

 

[Douglas]

I agree that a formal ground school is not necessary.
Is somebody in your area offering one?

You can do just fine by reading the books yourself instead of going to a class to have them read to you.

Your instructor will do some ground work with you.
If you are going to a part 141 course, the ground school part is a required part of the syllabus. You instructor will make sure it gets completed.

I also agree that some DVD ground schools are pretty good, but be careful, you can not watch them like a regular DVD. You will need to be tuned in instead of tuned out and you might have to rewind a few times to listen to certain parts over and over again.

 

[JPilot9]

I also agree that some DVD ground schools are pretty good, but be careful, you can not watch them like a regular DVD. You will need to be tuned in instead of tuned out and you might have to rewind a few times to listen to certain parts over and over again.

:yeahthat:I stay after hours at work, go into a meeting room with a DVD player, and study there. It's quiet and there's nothing distracting me (phone calls, a nap on my couch, etc.).

As far as the study materials, you can Google the PTS, Instrument Flying and Procedures Handbooks, and all other FAA books. They're available for free in PDF format from the FAA.

ATP is certainly a good training program, but you can get a much more cost-effective plan together if you search around. I looked at going to ATP, but instead opted to train with a 15,000 hour pilot. Rather than paying someone to get their experience (a low-time instructor), I'm paying someone FOR their experience.

 

[killbilly]

I looked at going to ATP, but instead opted to train with a 15,000 hour pilot. Rather than paying someone to get their experience (a low-time instructor), I'm paying someone FOR their experience.

I understand what you're trying to say here, but this becomes a very slippery slope. I have worked now with both "high" and "low" time instructors and found quality instruction in both.

 

[Lancer151]

Guys... a question.

"In addition to other requirements, the applicant must be at least 18 years of age and have accumulated at least 250 total Pilot In Command hours."
Till Commercial rating:
250*$100(avg rate for cessna 172)=25000
100*$55 (avg instructor rate)=5500
50* $55 (avg ground instrutor)=2750
$33,250

and I have to add CFI+ multi engine planes avg 200-250.

for a rough estimate, I'm getting about 40-50000 depending on school.

Am I right? I'm in SoCal and we are notorious for anything to be overpriced.
Does this seem right if I went the FBO route?

Whats the average price to obtaining CFI Multi, Single & Instrument?
It seems like I have to borrow a little bit even with the FBO route...

 

[moleman]

ATP's price is competitive in so cal.

Good luck getting finished. Most that start at FBOs never do.

The pro FBO crowd on here tends to paint a picture that finishing on time is all up to you.

I'd stay away from any that do contract training for non citizens. If you show up and there's one airplane and the school has to decide between letting you fly or one of the contract students fly, I can guarantee you'll be a spectator that day.

If they piss you off its one customer if they piss the contract guy off it could be 100 customers.

Don't go to an FBO that doesn't actually own the aircraft. Some FBO's just rent other peoples airplanes. These days an owner could easily decide to post pone maintenance like engine overhauls or AD compliance and let your airplane and your training sit. It already use to happen alot imagine it will become more frequent.

You can do everything at an FBO that you can do at ATP. You can also win the lottery. Normally you don't though.

 

[juxtapilot]

ATP's price is competitive in so cal.

Good luck getting finished. Most that start at FBOs never do.

The pro FBO crowd on here tends to paint a picture that finishing on time is all up to you.

I'd stay away from any that do contract training for non citizens. If you show up and there's one airplane and the school has to decide between letting you fly or one of the contract students fly, I can guarantee you'll be a spectator that day.

If they piss you off its one customer if they piss the contract guy off it could be 100 customers.

Don't go to an FBO that doesn't actually own the aircraft. Some FBO's just rent other peoples airplanes. These days an owner could easily decide to post pone maintenance like engine overhauls or AD compliance and let your airplane and your training sit. It already use to happen alot imagine it will become more frequent.

You can do everything at an FBO that you can do at ATP. You can also win the lottery. Normally you don't though.

:yeahthat:Great Post.