foreign airlines

braidkid

New Member
Ok, so I posted this question on flightinfo and as some of you know got roasted. So, here's to better
results...

I've heard that you can fly multi-engine turbine airplanes over in Europe with under 1000 hours. Some even
make it with only a couple hundred hours. I have also heard that you have to pay for this training but if you
make it through the training you are given right seat with very little time. My question is to anyone out there
who has looked into this or knows something about it.....what's the scoop?
Some might say that I'm complaining about not finding a job here. Not the truth. I am aware that it takes
two maybe three times the amount of flight experience to get a job in the US and I'm just looking for a better
faster way.
Thoughts? Opinions? Sounds like a good idea?
 

I_Money

Moderator
Although it is true that BA had 757 guys with 200 hours, the training is pretty a pretty intense 18 month (and $80,000) course, lots of ground stuff (13 writtens alone). It would not just be a simple case of converting licenses, and getting hired (finding a job over there now is not easy too!).
Also getting the right to live and work over there is quite tough.

Well I am off over that way in 40 mins, TTYL!
 

chrisdahut1

Well-Known Member
Just getting the right to work in Europe is as hard as getting the right to work in the U.S. (very difficult for those that don't know). Once you get that, then you'd be in a position to apply to some of the Ab initio courses. Right now, most have stopped hiring. Even when they are hiring, the tests and interview process are brutal. I applied to British Airways back in June 1999, and went all the way to London in Sept. same year to do the preliminary tests. Very tough, very few people pass. Even fewer pass the next few rounds of interviews and tests. Out of thousands of applicants, only about 15 to 30 (I've heard) are actually offered a job.

Unless you have the right to work in Europe, don't even look in that direction. I know it's tempting to look at all the easier and faster ways to make it in this industry, but your choices are right now are very limited. Even obtaining a CFI job ain't too easy, let alone a 200 hour airline pilot job.

Good luck.
 

davetheflyer

New Member
I think that it is really difficult for an American to get hired in Europe. I've heard that they don't have the equal rights protections that we do, and consequently, they hire locally before they hire foreigners.

Having said that, you can find jobs with low time in the US if you are in the right place at the right time. Look for an internship or work as a ramper, FA, etc, then transfer to the flight department. I think that some of those guys get in the right seat with about 600 TT.
 

secretapproach

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think that it is really difficult for an American to get hired in Europe. I've heard that they don't have the equal rights protections that we do, and consequently, they hire locally before they hire foreigners.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very few countries don't hire locally before they will hire foreigners. It doesn't have anything to do with aviation - it's just labor law. I'm an American working in Germany and it's a lot easier for me to get a work permit than for a German in the US. Europe is not some backwater with no civil rights.
 

Raskolnikov

Well-Known Member
It is very difficult for Americans to get permission to work in a European country. One of the only ways to do it is if you have some special skill or training that they can't find in their European applicants. Pilot training could be this skill if there were a lack of trained pilots. Probably not the case right now.

I spent three years in Austria and know how much bureaucracy and red tape can bog you down and prevent you from getting a visa even if you do have a special skill or training. You normally have to find a company that is willing to sponsor you for the visa. There are only a few exceptions where you can apply on your own, owning a business in that country for example. Yes you can legally start your own business with relatively little hassle. It's when you try to get permission to work for your own company that the snares of red tape start to slow you down. They usually (I only know about Austria) allocate all of the visas for a given year on a first come first served basis, starting in January. So if they are only giving out 20 visas that year, you would want to apply Jan 1st if you are to have a shot. By February all visas are allocated until the next calendar year.

The easiest way is to find a European to marry you. Then it's almost automatic.
 

secretapproach

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
It is very difficult for Americans to get permission to work in a European country. One of the only ways to do it is if you have some special skill or training that they can't find in their European applicants. Pilot training could be this skill if there were a lack of trained pilots. Probably not the case right now.

I spent three years in Austria and know how much bureaucracy and red tape can bog you down and prevent you from getting a visa even if you do have a special skill or training. You normally have to find a company that is willing to sponsor you for the visa. There are only a few exceptions where you can apply on your own, owning a business in that country for example. Yes you can legally start your own business with relatively little hassle. It's when you try to get permission to work for your own company that the snares of red tape start to slow you down. They usually (I only know about Austria) allocate all of the visas for a given year on a first come first served basis, starting in January. So if they are only giving out 20 visas that year, you would want to apply Jan 1st if you are to have a shot. By February all visas are allocated until the next calendar year.

The easiest way is to find a European to marry you. Then it's almost automatic.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure the Austrians do it this way? That would be totally different then the way the rest of Europe does it. (See my post under the thread: "it keeps getting more interesting..."

Speaking of Austria, did anyone else watch the Vienna Opera Ball on TV last night?
 

secretapproach

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
The easiest way is to find a European to marry you. Then it's almost automatic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta go pick up my Portuguese girlfriend from the Airport! hee hee

I'll have to be really good to her...
 

Raskolnikov

Well-Known Member
Yes I'm quite sure. But I realize now that I wasn't totally clear. Austria allocates a certain number of visas to foreigners with business in Austria every year. They start handing them out at the beginning of the calendar year and when they're gone, they're gone until the next year. This is just for people with businesses. The majority of these go to the people who sell newspapers on the street and to those unfortunate souls who go from night club to restaurant to bar selling roses and flashing lighters that look like frogs or spaceships. They have a business.

I had a tour guide business and subcontracted my services out to a larger tour operator who supplied the busses and the guests. I paid taxes and had state insurance. But since I applied for the visa in late January, by the time they got to my application all the visas had been allocated for the year. I continued to work and pay taxes. It's a good thing that the people who regulate who gets to open a business and who gets a visa to work in the country don't work together. It seems like a big loophole. I'm just lucky the Auslanderpolizei didn't catch on.


But for pilots, you don't have to have your own business, you have to find a company to sponsor you, say Lufthansa or Swiss... The company applies for you. I think they also have to prove that they couldn't find a qualified national citizen to do the job. With these visas there is no fixed number allocated each year (as far as I know) and it doesn't matter when during the calendar year they apply.
 

Raskolnikov

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, and if you are thinking about going the Portuguese girlfriend route, I'm not completely sure about the EU rules but that might only work if you wanted to work in Portugal. She, of course, could work in Germany all she wants but I don't know if that means you could too. Might want to look into that. If you know otherwise let me know.
 

secretapproach

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, and if you are thinking about going the Portuguese girlfriend route, I'm not completely sure about the EU rules but that might only work if you wanted to work in Portugal. She, of course, could work in Germany all she wants but I don't know if that means you could too. Might want to look into that. If you know otherwise let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you mean now about it being a work permit for having your own business. I've never checked that out in Germany.

I don't know what the EU rules in my situation would be, either. But that's not the reason I'm with my girlfriend.
 

Raskolnikov

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah that makes sense about the girlfriend!


Hey did you say you're in Berlin? I was six months in Berlin. Wen't to the Humbolt Universitaet zu Berlin. Lived in Kreutzberg, was an awesome time.
 
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