ArcherII
Well-Known Member
And the 402s...[joke] I wish Corpies would stick to their own kind. I mean, you don’t see me taking my 737 into Van Nuys or Teterboro. Go to BED or ORH. Leave BOS for the big boys.[/joke]
Be careful....
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
You tell the boss he can't take his airplane into any suitable airport he wants.[joke] I wish Corpies would stick to their own kind. I mean, you don’t see me taking my 737 into Van Nuys or Teterboro. Go to BED or ORH. Leave BOS for the big boys.
Also, why didnt that lear get a phone number to call?
depending on traffic load, it’s quite possible that phone number was passed to Center, or FXE TRACON or tower, to be passed to the Lear.
Is there video or audio of this somewhere yet?
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
I wrote this whole thing out and deleted it, not gonna monday morning QB this one. Lots of things could have gone differently on all parties. It is a team game and we all play on the same side.
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
It is on the VAS aviation channel, it is a short one. ATC is completely clean here. Lear was told to LUAW, given a traffic call, and took off instead.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Im not asking for QB, I just want to see data and see what AGL the landing aircraft was when he went around, and if the Skywest had already completed his backtaxi and was rolling or not.
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
I already watched the video enough times so I am not going to watch it again. The MSL altitude is the 3 digit number on the second line of the data block, and the airspeed is the 2 digit number next to the altitude in tens, rounded to the nearest 10kts. They were on 2nm final and going 130kts when they announced the go-around. You can interpolate the AGL by finding the field elevation of BUR. The distance is determined on the radar scope the runways are depicted, the dashed line indicating the final approach course is segmented by mile so since they were at the start of the first dash that means they were 2 miles from the approach end of the runway.
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
The required separation in VMC is 6000ft and airborne when a jet is involved, measured when the arrival crosses the landing threshold
Old Pete
Cockpit Authoritarian
visibility and ceiling far exceeded minimums so I was comfortable
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Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
video I’m watching doesn’t show any data boxes. Which one?
it’s a hard habit to break, having lived under Reduced Runway Separation for so many years while in tactical jets, where I’m not phased to be concerned with traffic downfield on the runway while landing myself, when I should be.
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
Sure, the little tag with the callsign pointed at the radar target is called a datablock. They are all there in the VAS Aviation video posted a few pages ago.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
I see it now (flashes back and forth), 600 feet I gather, seems early to throw in the towel unless the skywest hadn’t completed his 180 backtrack or was very clearly not going to be moving. The fact skywest stayed ahead of Mesa leads me to think landing would’ve been possible. Probably to much of a squeeze by the tower considering backtrack was required (assuming it’s harder to time how long that will take). Either way, go around should always be an option without the CF that ensued.
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
I remember either working on or as a new private pilot I was landing a cessna behind a seneca and I thought the seneca had to be off the runway before I could land, and I questioned a landing clearance that was then reaffirmed. This was before I had any tower experience. In this scenario, the piston single only needs to be 3000 behind the piston twin. If the single were the lead, it is 4500ft for the twin landing behind. There is no requirement to be clear of the runway.
When I was hired as a controller we went through a 5 week course called ATC basics which included almost everything covered in a private pilot ground school curriculum. I am not sure how much it helps with ATC, but I think the if pilots had some sort of basic instructions on what we do, it might help the whole system run more smoothly.
Also most facilities are doing tours again, stop by and say hello sometime.
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
I also thought it was a bit premature for a go around, and it definitely is a factor in a big mess, but lots of things could have gone better.
for RRS for tactical jets, it was 3000’ between jets, offset on the hot/cold side of the runway. So we could recover a 4 ship to a standard 12K runway fe the overhead break, with lead turning off at the end, 2 rolling out in the last half, 3 rolling into the second quarter, as 4 is touching down. When the pilots didn’t screw up the spacing, it was impressive to make work with the runway perfectly split into quarters by the jets positions on landing.
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