Be careful....

[///AMG]

Really? I thought BOS was advanced but fairly easy if you way attention.

Yeah i was really intimidated prior to going there the first time, the CA was like “naw naw naw man, its gonna be just fine” and then he was right.

Actually went here today, and at 3 mile final for 4R, they cleared a departure on 4R, which was rolling by the time we were at 2 miles. Then once they cleared 9 (pretty quickly) they cleared another jet to takeoff on 9, and they started rolling when we were at about a mile and change. At the 500’ callout, nearly perfectly timed, the runway was ours. Pretty efficient I’d say.

 

[///AMG]

for RRS for tactical jets, it was 3000’ between jets, offset on the hot/cold side of the runway. So we could recover a 4 ship to a standard 12K runway fe the overhead break, with lead turning off at the end, 2 rolling out in the last half, 3 rolling into the second quarter, as 4 is touching down. When the pilots didn’t screw up the spacing, it was impressive to make work with the runway perfectly split into quarters by the jets positions on landing.

Even better is like 3 divisions (4 ships for you) doing the same, all with 3000 ft standard sep. Or maybe 15 jets recovering with 60 sec spacing to das boat radio silent. Regular business day for the Navy. No ascots required.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I don't know, CC, I think you're the odd guy out here!

You need to watch more VASAviation videos on YouTube. Close calls are very high at BOS and JFK. I’m frankly more concerned how people here write off these concerns. We’ve had way too many close calls recently. If that doesn’t make the avg guy at least re-think the next time going into these airports, that’s lessons not learned.

 

[///AMG]

To be fair, 2/3 were people either crossing an active runway or commencing takeoff without a clearance. But i also think if you aren’t watching and listening carefully, you are insane.

 

[MikeD]

Even better is like 3 divisions (4 ships for you) doing the same, all with 3000 ft standard sep. Or maybe 15 jets recovering with 60 sec spacing to das boat radio silent. Regular business day for the Navy. No ascots required.

use to be Supervisor of Flying up in the tower, have my own jets out on a rainy late afternoon going into dusk, get a section of Hornets coming in for a fuel stop, and they make a request to RAPCON, who passes it to the tower, that they all need short field arrestments due to winds and standing water. Threw me for a loop, because field arrestments aren’t the same at a USAF base as they are at a USN/USMC base…..there are no cyclic arrestments. Each one is an emergency only, singular event that takes about an hour between iterations to reset the a-gear to battery. So naturally, the question comes up why the hell they need a field arrestment, are they declaring an emergency? I’ve still got other jets coming in. Nope. Some kind of operational need. Total pain in the ass. Ended up having to recover them to two separate runways to foul those up, and recover the rest of my jets on our third runway, who recovered fine with no a-gear usage.

 

[///AMG]

use to be Supervisor of Flying up in the tower, have my own jets out on a rainy late afternoon going into dusk, get a section of Hornets coming in for a fuel stop, and they make a request to RAPCON, who passes it to the tower, that they all need short field arrestments due to winds and standing water. Threw me for a loop, because field arrestments aren’t the same at a USAF base as they are at a USN/USMC base…..there are no cyclic arrestments. Each one is an emergency only, singular event that takes about an hour between iterations to reset the a-gear to battery. So naturally, the question comes up why the hell they need a field arrestment, are they declaring an emergency? I’ve still got other jets coming in. Nope. Some kind of operational need. Total pain in the ass. Ended up having to recover them to two separate runways to foul those up, and recover the rest of my jets on our third runway, who recovered fine with no a-gear usage.

Hahaha classic. FWIW, our NATOPS manual suggests field arrestment (dating back to the Hornet) if standing water of 1/4” or greater is present. I’ll say that sounds very conservative, but you haven’t landed a short moment arm gear Hornet on a truly wet runway, and gripped the controls for a few seconds as you try to decide if it is going to stay on the runway or if you need to eject (normally well below the “go around is an option” speed). I imagine they could have not trapped, but it would’ve been the correct answer per the book. I think we have talked about this before, but the first Hornet fatality I know of was during the test program when CAPT Hank Kleeman went off the runway due to both a main gear failure (planing or connecting link, cant remember) and standing water at KNKX. He passed away upside down after drowning in the ditch off 24R because ARFF didn’t yet know how to deal with the new jet and get him out. Was one of the Libya Fitter killers in the 81 (or was it 83?) shoot downs. We have collectively learned to take wet runways seriously over the decades. I know i twice scared the s**** out of myself this way......once at Miramar as well, as a squall line passed over the field in near 0/0 conditions off a PAR, and a second time at night after a long transcon back to Oceana with another major squall line crossing the field. Both times i was but a moment from pulling the handle on rollout. Only my learned ginger inputs kept it generally on the runway. It’s sporty in heavy rain to say the least!

 

[derg]

You need to watch more VASAviation videos on YouTube. Close calls are very high at BOS and JFK. I’m frankly more concerned how people here write off these concerns. We’ve had way too many close calls recently. If that doesn’t make the avg guy at least re-think the next time going into these airports, that’s lessons not learned.

I do and they're somewhat interesting.

But as stated earlier, they appear to be pilot deviations. But lets dig a little deeper into that. VASAviation will basically put dollars down to make compelling, clickable videos. They're going to show you the wildest stuff available (who cares about turning the wrong way on the taxiway) at the biggest airports (who gives a poop about what happened in Santa Maria unless it was insaaaaaane and will drive traffic).

I'd postulate that the reason you see more things happen in BOS is (a) it's a sexy airport, (b) the event was spectacular enough to spend time to make a video and (c) VASAviation has a knack for creating watchable content. That's really it.

Numbers, my friend. Statistics are truth (-ish). Like our coworkers are WAY more on guard about violent crime per capita in New York and Los Angeles when they feel safe and out of the dangerous urban streets traipsing around half-drunk on an Anchorage layover.

 

[///AMG]

Numbers, my friend. Statistics are truth (-ish). Like our coworkers are WAY more on guard about violent crime per capita in New York and Los Angeles when they feel safe and out of the dangerous urban streets traipsing around half-drunk on an Anchorage layover.

Have heard multiple times about the pilot/crew attacked outside hotel in downtown SEA. I walk a lot at night on layovers, there are a lot of sketchier places that don’t sound sketch. Also, how bout that MEM crashpad?

 

[roundout]

You tell the boss he can't take his airplane into any suitable airport he wants.

Also, why didnt that lear get a phone number to call?

It’s a South Florida charter operator, I’m sure the company and the POI are on each others Christmas card list.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I do and they're somewhat interesting.

But as stated earlier, they appear to be pilot deviations. But lets dig a little deeper into that. VASAviation will basically put dollars down to make compelling, clickable videos. They're going to show you the wildest stuff available (who cares about turning the wrong way on the taxiway) at the biggest airports (who gives a poop about what happened in Santa Maria unless it was insaaaaaane and will drive traffic).

I'd postulate that the reason you see more things happen in BOS is (a) it's a sexy airport, (b) the event was spectacular enough to spend time to make a video and (c) VASAviation has a knack for creating watchable content. That's really it.

Numbers, my friend. Statistics are truth (-ish). Like our coworkers are WAY more on guard about violent crime per capita in New York and Los Angeles when they feel safe and out of the dangerous urban streets traipsing around half-drunk on an Anchorage layover.

Of course they’re pilot deviations.

VASAviation makes money, sure, but they are 100% real incidents that the guy puts together with ATC recordings and a video of the event. It helps to visualize it.


BOS is a tictac board mess. Any airport that requires you to cross a takeoff runway after landing (eg, LAX, LAS, SEA) increases the chances of a runway incursion. Places like DTW are awesome. Land 22R, 21L, and you never cross the takeoff runway (usually). A, Q, ramp. Or W, J, ramp. Simple.

We brief threats and my threats always include crossing a takeoff runway after we land, to be heads up, and mitigate by not doing something non-pertinent - like calling ops , which is a big deal at our shop.

 

[inigo88]

Yeah i was really intimidated prior to going there the first time, the CA was like “naw naw naw man, its gonna be just fine” and then he was right.

Actually went here today, and at 3 mile final for 4R, they cleared a departure on 4R, which was rolling by the time we were at 2 miles. Then once they cleared 9 (pretty quickly) they cleared another jet to takeoff on 9, and they started rolling when we were at about a mile and change. At the 500’ callout, nearly perfectly timed, the runway was ours. Pretty efficient I’d say.

BOS is the only airport I know of where the ILS is not authorized if there’s a tall ship in the way. I saw the notes on the ILS 4R in an instrument ground school and thought “what are the odds…”

Turns out it happens, they can send you around for it, they’ve got cameras… what a • show (in an awesomely unique sort of way).

 

[BobDDuck]

BOS is the only airport I know of where the ILS is not authorized if there’s a tall ship in the way. I saw the notes on the ILS 4R in an instrument ground school and thought “what are the odds…”

View attachment 70090

Turns out it happens, they can send you around for it, they’ve got cameras… what a • show (in an awesomely unique sort of way).

Runway 35 in Philly had (has?) a restriction on tall ships as well. Up until about 2010 tower would do their best to sequence you so that you'd avoid overflying a tall ship (but it was totally ok to fly over a not tall ship), as well as for 27R arrivals. Then there was a memo that went out saying that they would just tell you if a ship was considered tall, and it was up to you to not overfly it... and if you did overfly it, you'd be subject to certificate action.

 

[greg1016]

I believe TXKF also has a note about tall ships, but I don't remember it ever affecting us when I was there (at ZNY)

 

[greg1016]

BOS is a tictac board mess. Any airport that requires you to cross a takeoff runway after landing (eg, LAX, LAS, SEA) increases the chances of a runway incursion. Places like DTW are awesome. Land 22R, 21L, and you never cross the takeoff runway (usually). A, Q, ramp. Or W, J, ramp. Simple.

We brief threats and my threats always include crossing a takeoff runway after we land, to be heads up, and mitigate by not doing something non-pertinent - like calling ops , which is a big deal at our shop.

The problem with this is that no one wants to live or go where there is enough land to build an airport like this. Even at lowly MHT we cross 17 just to taxi out for a 17 departure. Hold short instructions are not that hard. Nor crossing instructions or line up and wait. For as much as this may add to your workload, it adds to ours even more but we do it because that is what it takes to get the job done.

 

[MikeD]

The problem with this is that no one wants to live or go where there is enough land to build an airport like this. Even at lowly MHT we cross 17 just to taxi out for a 17 departure. Hold short instructions are not that hard. Nor crossing instructions or line up and wait. For as much as this may add to your workload, it adds to ours even more but we do it because that is what it takes to get the job done.

Agreed, crossing a departure runway should be no different than crossing any other runway, in terms of following instructions, clearances, visually clearing before crossing, etc.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Yet, time and time again:

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Runway+incursion

 

[Kingairer]

BOS should close 33R/15L if for nothing else than the extra transmissions it causes. (please hold the 'its cape airs' runway comments)

 

[Kingairer]

Of course they’re pilot deviations.

VASAviation makes money, sure, but they are 100% real incidents that the guy puts together with ATC recordings and a video of the event. It helps to visualize it.


BOS is a tictac board mess. Any airport that requires you to cross a takeoff runway after landing (eg, LAX, LAS, SEA) increases the chances of a runway incursion. Places like DTW are awesome. Land 22R, 21L, and you never cross the takeoff runway (usually). A, Q, ramp. Or W, J, ramp. Simple.

We brief threats and my threats always include crossing a takeoff runway after we land, to be heads up, and mitigate by not doing something non-pertinent - like calling ops , which is a big deal at our shop.

What a waste calling ops is. If some avgeek can follow adsb data down to the foot and knot, someone in ops can do the same.

 

[DropTank]

That garbage ain’t even cheese!

It's so Murica, it's doesn't NEED no pinko cheese in it!!
And if you want holes in it , just call it an elementary school.

 

[roundout]

What a waste calling ops is. If some avgeek can follow adsb data down to the foot and knot, someone in ops can do the same.

DOUBLE LIKE

At our place, the radio rarely gets answered. For some reason F/Os love to demonstrate how fast they can call, sometimes before retracting the flaps and whatever else they do over there as part of the after landing flow. Like...why? It isn't like the below wing staff are anxiously awaiting your call to sprint out to the box with lighted wands. Even if they were, does that extra 20 seconds really matter?

But I'm an easy going guy, so I usually say something like "the Company appreciates your efforts" or something along those lines. Don't want to fall in to micromanagement territory.