Be careful....
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Not ideal. But what then? Go around? Now you’re continuing on your closure rate to that guy that just took off. That’s gonna make for a hairy situation on the radio. As both aircraft continue to close in on each other in the air.
Would be like a B-52/KC-135 SAC scramble. Wake turbulence and all.
Boots2Wings
Just happy to be here.
Will admit, the idea of when to consider a runway occupied and initiate a go around, has become more ambiguous as time goes on for this exact reason.
Now I generally do it by “feel”, aka their speed, etc means I know they're beyond V1 so its my runway now, but it gets tighter than I want sometimes…usually with aircraft clearing
No “emergency takeoffs”.
That had parts of Europe written all over it. I’ve been as low as (well, low) before another plane rotates and tower issued a landing clearance in FRA.
“FRA tower, Soiuthernjets 1-4-0, looking for a landing clearance”
“SouthernJets 1-4-0, NO, IF I CLEARED YOU TO LAND I WOULD HAVE SAID IT. YOU DO NOT HAVE A LANDING CLEARANCE YET. SOUTHERNJETS 1-4-0 CLEARED TO LAND”
(Not even kidding)
That had parts of Europe written all over it. I’ve been as low as (well, low) before another plane rotates and tower issued a landing clearance in FRA.
“FRA tower, Soiuthernjets 1-4-0, looking for a landing clearance”
“SouthernJets 1-4-0, NO, IF I CLEARED YOU TO LAND I WOULD HAVE SAID IT. YOU DO NOT HAVE A LANDING CLEARANCE YET. SOUTHERNJETS 1-4-0 CLEARED TO LAND”
(Not even kidding)
I’ve gotten from tower before “continue”, while on approach and querying whether i was cleared to land and an aircraft was on the takeoff roll. With a landing clearance coming shortly thereafter. Of course, I come from years of Reduced Runway Separation, which was only 3000 feet between aircraft landing or a landing and a departure, (same aircraft type), and 6000’ for dissimilar aircraft type. So seeing aircraft on the runway I’m operating to isn’t a shock….though it should be. Another habit to break.
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
Generally, you will hear a "Continue" clearance when the runway is unsafe but expected to be safe by the time you arrive. I will also usually throw in a reason for the withheld clearance "traffic holds in position" and an "expect clearance 1 mile final" or something like that as a prompt for the pilots to remind me if they haven't already been cleared. It is required when an aircraft is positioned but not taking off when the Airport Surface Detection Equipment is either in limited mode or non-existent, or if it is fully functional but the weather is less than 800ft and 2sm. I personally use the technique if I have a vehicle conducting runway operations as well, though that is not required.I’ve gotten from tower before “continue”, while on approach and querying whether i was cleared to land and an aircraft was on the takeoff roll. With a landing clearance coming shortly thereafter. Of course, I come from years of Reduced Runway Separation, which was only 3000 feet between aircraft landing or a landing and a departure, (same aircraft type), and 6000’ for dissimilar aircraft type. So seeing aircraft on the runway I’m operating to isn’t a shock….though it should be. Another habit to break.
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That makes sense. Some pilots I’ve flown with get concerned or almost spooked by receiving that. Whereas to me, it’s fairly normal ops. And makes sense.
Ive even gotten a go around instruction a few miles out before due to landing traffic not having exited yet, and I’ve acknowledged it and continued for about another mile or so, because the traffic is about to exit. As the traffic makes its turn to exit, I figure tower isn’t allowed to re-initiate a landing clearance, but I can query for one. I queried for a landing clearance again, an was given it by tower. And a normal, uneventful landing ensued. Everyone was happy.
Sometimes things don’t work out perfectly timing wise, but also, sometimes they are salvageable with minimal effort or risk.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
“Cherokee 91N go around expect long landing”
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
That would not be okay if it implies what I think
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I’ve gotten from tower before “continue”, while on approach and querying whether i was cleared to land and an aircraft was on the takeoff roll. With a landing clearance coming shortly thereafter. Of course, I come from years of Reduced Runway Separation, which was only 3000 feet between aircraft landing or a landing and a departure, (same aircraft type), and 6000’ for dissimilar aircraft type. So seeing aircraft on the runway I’m operating to isn’t a shock….though it should be. Another habit to break.
I'll be honest, it took a bit of time getting used to being cleared to land multiple miles away in the civilian world at big airports. Cleared to land and there are multiple arrivals and departures yet to come/go before that. I'm used to being at the 180 and getting a "cleared to land number 3" at most, and almost never before I am already in the tower pattern. Sort of like "were we cleared to land? That was like 5 mins ago.....how could they have known back then" weirdness. For those who aren't aware, at mil fields, at least those I have flown at (almost all of the USN/USMC/USAF tactical fields at least), landing clearance is normally held until you are on downwind/abeam the numbers, or inside a 3 mile final if on straight in/approach. For no particular reason, other than a lot of weird stuff can happen outside of about a minute from landing (gear out of battery, multiple planes landing in the flight ahead, one does something unexpected, etc). A "go around" is also not the mini emergency that I see and hear described so often on the 121 side. You just like, clean up and fly the plane. Granted there isn't much of a procedure there, just push the throttles up mid range, raise the gear, and take the flap switch from down to up at whatever seems like a reasonable speed (we have no "bugs"). So maybe a little apples to oranges in that comparison?
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Idk, they used to use it in JNU with the 135 guys. You’d get too close and they’d tell you to go around, then clear you to land once the 207 or Cherokee ahead of you clearedThat would not be okay if it implies what I think
greg1016
Trustworthy Source
Yeah, if it is two SRS Cat 1 aircraft you only need 3000ft. If the back is a cat 2 you need 4500ft. If the aircraft in front is closer than 3000ft you should be going around, not some trick of semantics, and if they are more than the above numbers, there is no need. When SRS Cat 3 is involved then only one aircraft can occupy the runway at a time. If you are flying a jet or large turbo prop you should definitely be going around in this situation.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Listening to UA channel 9 the very first thing I heard in FRA was the approach controller tell S7 Siberian "Well then disconnect and fly manually, that is not an excuse for a nonstandard turn now you will be resequenced" in an angry tone haha
No wonder Germany is pretty much the only "free" modern nation with laws against listening to ATC/having VHF scanners.
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