Lowers but raised dues?

Steve if you weren't leaving the plan is to open a JFK council sometime next year. We were waiting for the displacement of all the turbo prop guys.
 
amorris311 said:
Steve if you weren't leaving the plan is to open a JFK council sometime next year. We were waiting for the displacement of all the turbo prop guys.
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And in the meantime? Why wait for the displacement? There are plenty of people in JFK NOW and have been for over a year and a half. Honestly, that should have been done as soon as the MEC was merged a year ago. Everyone in JFK has felt like the union couldn't care less about us. We're in the Northeast corner of the US, so we're kinda forgotten about. I've heard horror stories of people just trying to get a rep for a meeting with management because no one was around. We'd see things that said "Your reps will be in the crew room." When we asked which one, it was like we'd lost our minds. "What do you mean 'Which one?'" JFK or DTW. "Uh.. Oh, yeah. It's in DTW." In the 18 months I've been in JFK, the reps were at Dunkin Donuts ONCE.
 
It was an effort to save money and make sure that everyone who was going to be based in JFK have a vote. I know there seems to be a disconnect and I apologize about that. I'm only in office for another 10 days or so but if you need anything or anyone that you know does please email or call me.
 
amorris311 said:
It was an effort to save money and make sure that everyone who was going to be based in JFK have a vote. I know there seems to be a disconnect and I apologize about that. I'm only in office for another 10 days or so but if you need anything or anyone that you know does please email or call me.
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To me, that seems seriously short sighted and tends to overlook guys that are ALREADY based there. And it boils down to the main thing ALPA has done lately to disenchant me as a supporter: focusing on money over representation. If you're going to focus on making sure everyone who is GOING to be in JFK having a vote, might as well never have an LEC as people will be bidding in and out of that base every vacancy. The people bidding into JFK (or being displaced) DO have a vote. It's in the base they currently occupy. Sorry, but that's a pretty weak reason considering JFK is bigger than ATL and MEM, yet both have their own LECs.
 
Steve, you just need to see their side of things. If they didn't save all that money by not having JFK reps, they may not be able to afford the alcohol after the meetings that are just for politicking. Quick being so selfish and understand they need their booze more than you need representation.
 
SrFnFly227 said:
Steve, you just need to see their side of things. If they didn't save all that money by not having JFK reps, they may not be able to afford the alcohol after the meetings that are just for politicking. Quick being so selfish and understand they need their booze more than you need representation.
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Go see how much I expense toward the union. If you have a problem with my expenses let me know.
 
From the outside looking in, One List/One Union would solve about half of this in a heartbeat. Realistically (in my own uninformed opinion) all it takes is a small hit to the "haves". I could be of course very wrong about that. In my own union experience, NATCA refused to leave the new people behind (or if you'd prefer trade scope for pay). As it ended up, my brother's and sister's gave up raises to ensure people like me would be on an equal plane. As a result, NATCA can spend how ever much of my dues on whatever they want and I won't gripe. When your proverbial 1% forgo raises, endure pay cuts, etc just so you can one day have their standard of living. That's solidarity.

I just checked NATCA.ORG. There are no threads about raising dues, or alcohol expenditures. In fact our first new checkout due to our contract will make 50% more than me even though we've done this job just as long and all his time until now was in the middle of nowhere. Good for him. Thats what solidarity is.

Unions aren't fair, but they should strive to be. I hate to say it, but pilot unions appear to be fractured beyond repair. Main Line MEC fighting Main Line MEC vs Regional MEC's. How does that even work? You're starting off fractured.

Again, just one man's opinion after zero research.
 
genot said:
From the outside looking in, One List/One Union would solve about half of this in a heartbeat. Realistically (in my own uninformed opinion) all it takes is a small hit to the "haves". I could be of course very wrong about that. In my own union experience, NATCA refused to leave the new people behind (or if you'd prefer trade scope for pay). As it ended up, my brother's and sister's gave up raises to ensure people like me would be on an equal plane. As a result, NATCA can spend how ever much of my dues on whatever they want and I won't gripe. When your proverbial 1% forgo raises, endure pay cuts, etc just so you can one day have their standard of living. That's solidarity.

I just checked NATCA.ORG. There are no threads about raising dues, or alcohol expenditures. In fact our first new checkout due to our contract will make 50% more than me even though we've done this job just as long and all his time until now was in the middle of nowhere. Good for him. Thats what solidarity is.

Unions aren't fair, but they should strive to be. I hate to say it, but pilot unions appear to be fractured beyond repair. Main Line MEC fighting Main Line MEC vs Regional MEC's. How does that even work? You're starting off fractured.

Again, just one man's opinion after zero research.
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In my experience with ALPA, we're our own worst enemies. The senior guys will toss the junior guys under the bus in order to protect their pensions and schedules. Airlines will stab each other in the back for growth. One airline will accept sub par wage and work rules in their contract in order to undercut another union carrier to get 30 airplanes and a quicker upgrade. One List/One Union sounds like a great idea, but the middle aged guys at one airline don't want to loose out to the younger guys that started at another airline before they did. For example, there's no way a 50 year old guy that started at United in 1993 will go for One List/One Union because the 30 somethings that started at Delta in 1992 will be senior to him/her unless their airline is looking at a shut down. Then they'll jump on it since they would be furloughed after the guys hired at Delta in 2007. Basically, if it doesn't benefit the individual, they'll vote "No" even if it raises the bar for the industry or eliminates some form of whipsawing. The back biting is bad enough WITHIN an airline. Start getting multiple airlines involved, and it's insane. I applaud the fact that ALPA will only hold their BOD meetings in union hotels. Too bad a lot of ALPA councils don't show that kind of solidarity towards their own brothers and sisters.
 
genot said:
From the outside looking in, One List/One Union would solve about half of this in a heartbeat. Realistically (in my own uninformed opinion) all it takes is a small hit to the "haves". I could be of course very wrong about that. In my own union experience, NATCA refused to leave the new people behind (or if you'd prefer trade scope for pay). As it ended up, my brother's and sister's gave up raises to ensure people like me would be on an equal plane. As a result, NATCA can spend how ever much of my dues on whatever they want and I won't gripe. When your proverbial 1% forgo raises, endure pay cuts, etc just so you can one day have their standard of living. That's solidarity.
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Let me tell you about what happened to my father's and his coworkers' (e.g. Derg) retirement...and their work rules, and their pay...
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Let me tell you about what happened to my father's and his coworkers' (e.g. Derg) retirement...and their work rules, and their pay...
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Hell, if I still qualify as a 'have', it's the end of days my friend.

I'm going to go steal that 1900 and head to the secret compound in Montana.

Friends: Condition "Green" - use your passcode accordingly. Weapons are live. Check your codebook. Confirm the "command/reply" protocol. I repeat, weapons are live.
 
I didn't mean to kick a hornets nest or anything. I guess from the outside looking in, if your company is as vulnerable to bankruptcy or what have you, the powers that be might see the benefit of One List or something similar to protect everyone at any stage in their career. Obviously it isn't as easy as I thought. I'm acutely aware that retirements, pay and work rules aren't what they were for pilots 12 years ago. Do I know exactly know to what degree? No. I do understand however there has been a huge nosedive.

I think Kellwolf did a great job in putting it all in perspective for me. I never really thought about multiple hiring cycles. If I caused any heartburn I'm sorry. I feel like the current decline of the pilot side of this industry is an absolute travesty.
 
genot said:
I didn't mean to kick a hornets nest or anything. I guess from the outside looking in, if your company is as vulnerable to bankruptcy or what have you, the powers that be might see the benefit of One List or something similar to protect everyone at any stage in their career. Obviously it isn't as easy as I thought. I'm acutely aware that retirements, pay and work rules aren't what they were for pilots 12 years ago. Do I know exactly know to what degree? No. I do understand however there has been a huge nosedive.

I think Kellwolf did a great job in putting it all in perspective for me. I never really thought about multiple hiring cycles. If I caused any heartburn I'm sorry. I feel like the current decline of the pilot side of this industry is an absolute travesty.
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Just to be clear, when you hear XJT/ASA/SKW folks spout off about one list (and by that, I really mean me spouting off about one list), it's only in reference to all the airlines that are operated by Skywest Inc., not every carrier in the country.
 
jtrain609 said:
Just to be clear, when you hear XJT/ASA/SKW folks spout off about one list (and by that, I really mean me spouting off about one list), it's only in reference to all the airlines that are operated by Skywest Inc., not every carrier in the country.
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You just want to bid into the Bro, don't lie.
 
Gonzo said:
Hell , I want to fly the Bro. If only AMF would hire into the left seat in SJU.
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When I was there, Amflight wouldn't even upgrade their Bro FO's straight into the left seat of the thing. They had to go get some time in the Metro first.

Never made much sense to me.
 
jtrain609 said:
When I was there, Amflight wouldn't even upgrade their Bro FO's straight into the left seat of the thing. They had to go get some time in the Metro first.

Never made much sense to me.
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They still do. Probably has to do with insurance and the fact the FO slot is an entry level position. It would take 5 years for a bro FO to get the insurance mins.
 
Maurus said:
They still do. Probably has to do with insurance and the fact the FO slot is an entry level position. It would take 5 years for a bro FO to get the insurance mins.
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Terms like "insurance minimums," and "seniority list" are used at Amflight when the company doesn't want to do something.

Terms like, "needs of the company" are used when the company wants to do something.

They've put guys in the Metro with 1,300 hours, and they've told 5,000 hour pilots that they don't meet the insurance minimums yet.
 
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