So, about Norwegian ending long haul...

[ChasenSFO]

Didn't take long for a new 787 operator to pick up the slack; long haul ultra low cost flights coming soon.

Starter nytt flyselskap

Larsen joins Norwegian's entrepreneurs, Bjørn Kjos and Bjørn Kise, among others, when they together focus on long-haul flights through the low-cost airline Norse Atlantic Airways.

We now have a historic opportunity to build a new airline from the start. When the world reopens, there will be a need for an innovative low-cost company in the intercontinental market, says Larsen in a press release.

Norse Atlantic Airways will initially offer flights with aircraft of the type Boeing 787 Dreamliners between Europe and the USA. Destinations include New York, Los Angeles, Paris and London. Later, the route network will be expanded to Asia.

The first planes will take off in December this year, according to the company.

ULCCs may be a concept of the last decade in long haul, but they aren't going anywhere...I'd imagine they will follow in Norwegian's foot steps and base crew in 3rd world countries to get away with paying them peanuts, but we'll see.

I've also read that LEVEL, the ULCC subsidiary of Iberia which is owned by the IAG group which also includes British Airways and Aer Lingus, is likely to relaunch most of Norwegian's former Paris long haul routes when things improve from their established hub in ORY and expand from BCN. They may use A321LRs Aer Lingus was going to be using on now canned routes like DUB-MSP to expand LEVEL into smaller US cities in the coming years as well. I wonder how long until a US ULCC joins the party, they'd better or else the European carriers will again monopolize that sector of the market when things pick up.

 

[Seggy]

 

[Baronman]

I wonder how long until a US ULCC joins the party, they'd better or else the European carriers will again monopolize that sector of the market when things pick up.

Enter JetBlue...Not a ULCC but about to stir things up on the US side.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Scandinavian be all, "WE GOTTEM BOYS"

 

[ChasenSFO]

I equate it to how the same "JX"-registered BAe Jetstream 31\32s hopped around flying for very short lived US West Coast start-up airlines all through the 90s for 1-2 years at a time. Obviously, all these operations like Reno Air Express, Sierra Expressway, Pacific Skyway, ect were doomed to fail. But, if there was a quick buck to be made before declaring bankruptcy, people did it. These ULCCs will grow like crazy from probably 2-3 years from now as things pick up and there is limited competition until the next aviation crisis probably 10 years or so from now is my bet.

Enter JetBlue...Not a ULCC but about to stir things up on the US side.

Meh, jetBlue will probably have a better product and better service than some of the established carriers. For sure they'll shake things up and steal some premium traffic and maybe some contracts for premium travel, but I don't think they'll attract the WOW Air and Norwegian crowd. If Spirit or Frontier were to launch flights to Europe with LRs, along with their connectivity with so many hubs and focus cities, that would really throw a wrench into the economy loads. Passengers are becoming so much more used to hard plastic seats and no service anyway that I think the second round of ULCC long haul will do better. We'll see. As far as I know, Spirit and Frontier are only thinking South of the border and not across the pond for the time being, so who knows what'll happen. But Iceland Air, really the main weapon against these operations with their massive US to Europe via KEF route network via, has sold off a sizable amount of it's 757s and 767s while axing many US cities like SFO, LAX, TPA, ect. I understand they are in rather deep doo-doo on the books right now. It is anyone's guess what happens now, but I notice Wizz Air has expanded service to several European countries via KEF...hmm..

Scandinavian be all, "WE GOTTEM BOYS"

They planned on keeping their A340s for a while, now that they dumped those and some of the A330s are ear marked to leave, I don't think they'll be able to expand much at all for years to come with long haul sadly. It's really a perfect storm for some rich folks to just rape yields for a few years and make a quick buck, almost no one to stop them.

 

[mikecweb]

I equate it to how the same "JX"-registered BAe Jetstream 31\32s hopped around flying for very short lived US West Coast start-up airlines all through the 90s for 1-2 years at a time. Obviously, all these operations like Reno Air Express, Sierra Expressway, Pacific Skyway, ect were doomed to fail. But, if there was a quick buck to be made before declaring bankruptcy, people did it. These ULCCs will grow like crazy from probably 2-3 years from now as things pick up and there is limited competition until the next aviation crisis probably 10 years or so from now is my bet.


Meh, jetBlue will probably have a better product and better service than some of the established carriers. For sure they'll shake things up and steal some premium traffic and maybe some contracts for premium travel, but I don't think they'll attract the WOW Air and Norwegian crowd. If Spirit or Frontier were to launch flights to Europe with LRs, along with their connectivity with so many hubs and focus cities, that would really throw a wrench into the economy loads. Passengers are becoming so much more used to hard plastic seats and no service anyway that I think the second round of ULCC long haul will do better. We'll see. As far as I know, Spirit and Frontier are only thinking South of the border and not across the pond for the time being, so who knows what'll happen. But Iceland Air, really the main weapon against these operations with their massive US to Europe via KEF route network via, has sold off a sizable amount of it's 757s and 767s while axing many US cities like SFO, LAX, TPA, ect. I understand they are in rather deep doo-doo on the books right now. It is anyone's guess what happens now, but I notice Wizz Air has expanded service to several European countries via KEF...hmm..


They planned on keeping their A340s for a while, now that they dumped those and some of the A330s are ear marked to leave, I don't think they'll be able to expand much at all for years to come with long haul sadly. It's really a perfect storm for some rich folks to just rape yields for a few years and make a quick buck, almost no one to stop them.

Unless oil spikes...

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Unless oil spikes...

Thanks, Obama Biden.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Unless oil spikes...

Add that to the "When times are bad, these ULCCs fail" category if it happens. If we had these long haul ULCCs in 2007, they would have died then, too.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

 

[Skåning]

"when you hear about Air Norse"

 

[Skåning]

How the hell do these guys keep getting loans and people to finance them?

 

[Roger Roger]

How the hell do these guys keep getting loans and people to finance them?

Because there’s so much money to be made in the ancillaries of a money-losing operation. Modern capitalism baby

 

[Autothrust Blue]

How the hell do these guys keep getting loans and people to finance them?

Same way the same people run airlines (occasionally quite poorly) here, I’d reckon

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Thanks, Obama Biden.

Oil is $4 again California. Thanks Xiden!

And btw, ppl seem to be naive to think the new tax raise won’t affect them. Oh it’s only on those above 400k. Oh it’s only in businesses from 21 to 28%. Well guess what, those costs are going to passed onto and covered by the consumer.

 

[Skåning]

 

[Richman]

All fun’n’games until they decide you’re the one that’s rich.

 

[Skåning]

All fun’n’games until they decide you’re the one that’s rich.

We’re rich-ish, not rich rich.
“My” airline doesn’t have a scope clause so we’re low tier.

 

[scooter2525]

All fun’n’games until they decide you’re the one that’s rich.

Or that you’re richman. Man.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

We’re rich-ish, not rich rich.
“My” airline doesn’t have a scope clause so we’re low tier.

Again like richman said, it depends who you ask.

I have no doubt that the average American would consider me rich and say that I'm overpaid.

 

[mwflyer]

Again like richman said, it depends who you ask.

I have no doubt that the average American would consider me rich and say that I'm overpaid.

You’re not overpaid. Anymore than a professional coach or athlete. The job pays what it pays. But if you’re clocking north of 300k annually, you’re rich. Wealth depends on what you do with that 300k for 20-30 years.