People Will Tell You This Profession Can't Get Better

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Who cares if guys wear go pros?

I have a newsflash for you....Outside of these forums there are a lot of happy pilots out there. Can the pay be better? Yes. That doesn't mean we don't do cool almost every day at work.

It's ok to be proud of what you do....it's not "SJS" it's not "selling out". I got into this because I love to fly. I don't love every day I go to work but I can guarandamntee you that if I left this job for almost anything else outside of "highly compensated high quality only pornstar" I'd miss it on the very first day.

90% of the negative rhetoric heard on these boards was probably learned on these boards and just run with....OMG GOJET SUCKS! SJS SCABS blah blah blah blah.....drink a beer and realize you could have it worse.

You have no idea. You're responding to a JetU alumnus.

What does JetU alumnus have anything to do with the topic at hand? I've never recorded any videos inflight, and certainly wouldn't make some top gun type music video of flying an airplane around.

I swear the butthurt is due to the JetU thing. Some people need to get over it. JetU is long gone.

 

[Firebird2XC]

At the same time a "friend" of mine has been working a new job for nearly two years. His hard work and dedication has paid off in raises that put him on par with a 13 year 190 captain. All he does is push papers, work schedules and manage a program. If he has an off day, nobody dies, nobody crashes.

This job only required a 4 year degree. No extra 30-80k of flight training. It has a top flight insurance plan, with better rates than 9e/9L had under the "new" contract. 401k,529 match. He can work from home if needed, sees his family every day, doesn't have to worry about missing a trip, gets a bonus (what's that) etc.

There is no reason that a captain on a plane like that should make less than my friend from day 1. There really needs to be a change.

Damned straight.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

At the same time a "friend" of mine has been working a new job for nearly two years. His hard work and dedication has paid off in raises that put him on par with a 13 year 190 captain. All he does is push papers, work schedules and manage a program. If he has an off day, nobody dies, nobody crashes.

This job only required a 4 year degree. No extra 30-80k of flight training. It has a top flight insurance plan, with better rates than 9e/9L had under the "new" contract. 401k,529 match. He can work from home if needed, sees his family every day, doesn't have to worry about missing a trip, gets a bonus (what's that) etc.

There is no reason that a captain on a plane like that should make less than my friend from day 1. There really needs to be a change.

Damned straight.

The airline pilot generalization of other peoples' careers and what they do versus what they get paid. This is the equivalent of the outsider looking into aviation and saying about pilots, "All they do is push buttons, work sometimes, and manage an autopilot."

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Have you seen the agreed to rates?

Then, have you seen the work rules that surround those rates?

Pay is a result if both.

Nah, screw that. It's easier to just declare victory and fellate yourself publicly.

 

[BobDDuck]

Nah, screw that...

Your comment is probably going to get edited, but I just wanted to say, that may be the funniest things I've read all week.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

The airline pilot generalization of other peoples' careers and what they do versus what they get paid. This is the equivalent of the outsider looking into aviation and saying about pilots, "All they do is push buttons, work sometimes, and manage an autopilot."

I'm not an airline pilot.

I'm pretty well acquainted with this "friends" job. I've done both.

121 captain has to make command decisions that affect hundreds of people at a time. A diversion could cost somebody their $6,000 dollar cruise. "Friend's" job might lose a contract... At most.

Pay is not consummate to the responsibility, education, work, liability, and dedication required.

 

[zmiller4]

What does JetU alumnus have anything to do with the topic at hand? I've never recorded any videos inflight, and certainly wouldn't make some top gun type music video of flying an airplane around.

I swear the butthurt is due to the JetU thing. Some people need to get over it. JetU is long gone.

Ask yourself: is there any reason why people would take offense to a guy who paid his way into an airline via JetU criticizing someone who paid his dues prior to becoming an airline pilotI for making a harmless video?

It seems to me that you're looking to attack the professionalism of pilots who took a more traditional route than you. The "butthurt" is probably because some of us were working our asses off while others were paying for a crappy RJ course. I'll get over it when you admit it was a crappy way to shortcut getting to an airline.

 

[Lunchbox]

I can't say I agree with this thread since I've never heard anybody ever say that the profession can't get better.

 

[Boris Badenov]

What does JetU alumnus have anything to do with the topic at hand?

Ahahhahahahahah. How did I not just assume this from the start? Makes perfect sense.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I'm not an airline pilot.
I'm pretty well acquainted with this "friends" job. I've done both.
121 captain has to make command decisions that affect hundreds of people at a time. A diversion could cost somebody their $6,000 dollar cruise. "Friend's" job might lose a contract... At most.
Pay is not consummate to the responsibility, education, work, liability, and dedication required.

It's still not an apples to apples comparison. Pay is commensurate (not consummate, you can't have sex with pay) with industry tier (regional, LCC/Major, Legacy). As for education, as ATN proves, you can get away with basically just a high school degree. There really isn't an education requirement for an airline pilot job. FedEx is the only one that is hard on the degree rule. Delta waives the degree requirement if you vote in concessions. As for work and liability, the same can be said for a lot of transportation jobs like buses and train operators. If they screw up they can kill many people as well. Lastly, you can't use the dedication required because any other professional office job also requires dedication.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Ask yourself: is there any reason why people would take offense to a guy who paid his way into an airline via JetU criticizing someone who paid his dues prior to becoming an airline pilotI for making a harmless video?

It seems to me that you're looking to attack the professionalism of pilots who took a more traditional route than you. The "butthurt" is probably because some of us were working our asses off while others were paying for a crappy RJ course. I'll get over it when you admit it was a crappy way to shortcut getting to an airline.

Not at all. I did not pay my way into any airline. I paid for a course just as you decided to pay for the CFI/I/MEI course. We both received specialized training in what we wanted. The after-affect of that training led us to our interviews at a regional airline. As for "paying your dues" that is the worst phrase I've ever heard in aviation. It is ENTIRELY subjective. It is a worn out over-used phrase that someone uses to justify their career decisions to get to where they are.

I'm not attacking the professionalism of anyone who took a certain route to get to where they are. I have no clue what the author did or didn't do to get to SkyWest. That's not my point. What does that video hope to do with that terrible music? Show to the public how cool the job is? Browse youtube and look up airline pilot videos for USA airlines. You'll hardly find many major airline video with music. The overwhelming majority are all RJ videos. There's a reason for that.

Lastly, I won't admit it was a crappy way. It was just another way of getting to the same end goal. There are many paths that lead to the same conclusion so it is up to you to choose your own.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

It's still not an apples to apples comparison. Pay is commensurate (not consummate, you can't have sex with pay) with industry tier (regional, LCC/Major, Legacy). As for education, as ATN proves, you can get away with basically just a high school degree. There really isn't an education requirement for an airline pilot job. FedEx is the only one that is hard on the degree rule. Delta waives the degree requirement if you vote in concessions. As for work and liability, the same can be said for a lot of transportation jobs like buses and train operators. If they screw up they can kill many people as well. Lastly, you can't use the dedication required because any other professional office job also requires dedication.

Trying to justify crap wages?

Airline pilots don't get paid what they are worth. Some of *you* are ok with it.

I understand that you don't give your career a decent valuation, people that were willing to buy their jobs all tend to do that. But hey, keep telling my why you shouldn't be paid more!

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Trying to justify crap wages?

Airline pilots don't get paid what they are worth. Some of *you* are ok with it.

I understand that you don't give your career a decent valuation, people that were willing to buy their jobs all tend to do that. But hey, keep telling my why you shouldn't be paid more!

These wages were already set long before I entered the field. Those forces were beyond my control and nothing I did or could do changed that. I'm curious, since you say airline pilots don't get paid what they are worth, what are they worth to you? How do you define that worth? In terms of flight hours? Education/degrees? Bigger airplane size? More people being more responsibility? In unionized carriers, the market will determine what you get. When the going gets tough, there will be paycuts and concessions. In the good times when the airline is in the black, there will be wage increases.

P.S. I didn't buy my job. You have a misconception of that.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

P.S. I didn't buy my job. You have a misconception of that.[/quote]
Jet. U?

Let's make a poll on that in the airline pilots forum.

I went to jet u. Do you think I bought my job?

A) yes
B) yes but I don't want to watch him try to spin it for the next 30 posts.

Seriously, you're arguing with me on this? Who in their right mind gets up in arms when somebody says,"you're not getting paid enough". Do you volunteer to take pay cuts at VA to "help out"?
Do you pick up trips for free just because it's fun?

I'm pretty sure nobody else is going to disagree with a post highlighting pay discrepancies.

 

[deadstick]

These wages were already set long before I entered the field. Those forces were beyond my control and nothing I did or could do changed that.

I'm not trying to add to this whizzin' match, but as with our military, this is an all volunteer career. As you stated, this crappy pay was in place before many took the job. If the pay was not acceptable at that time, why accept the position? So what's changed? If a concession was approved (ie PSA), is it management's fault or the pilot group's?

Pilots are our own worst enemy.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Jet. U?

Let's make a poll on that in the airline pilots forum.

I went to jet u. Do you think I bought my job?

A) yes
B) yes but I don't want to watch him try to spin it for the next 30 posts.

Seriously, you're arguing with me on this? Who in their right mind gets up in arms when somebody says,"you're not getting paid enough". Do you volunteer to take pay cuts at VA to "help out"?
Do you pick up trips for free just because it's fun?

I'm pretty sure nobody else is going to disagree with a post highlighting pay discrepancies.

You just said you weren't an airline pilot. What dog do you have in this fight then? I really couldn't care for APC. In fact, this place is pretty much APC version 2.0

There's never enough money. Ever. You could be paid $250/hr and you'll want 270. You could get paid 270 and you'd say you wanted 290 and therefore not satisfied. So on and on. As for me, I have never voted yes to any paycuts (which is something a lot of pilots cannot say). If a vote comes to me for a paycut, I would vote no. Also, any trips picked up from open time are paid at your straight scale normal wage rate, unless you were assigned a trip on willing to fly status or were above 80 hrs for the month in which case you get premium pay. Now if you are asking me do I think I'm paid enough? My answer would be no, because I can justify it with a quantitative measure of industry average. Take the A320 rates of every US airline, add them, and divide by total airlines to get the industry average scale for every longevity year. Right now my scale is below that industry average, so yes I think I'm on the underpaid side. But at least I can quantify it and tell you what the measuring stick is. You haven't provided anything except the overused we're-all-underpaid! argument.

What would make you happy?

 

[staledog]

As for work and liability, the same can be said for a lot of transportation jobs like buses and train operators. If they screw up they can kill many people as well.

Yeah, but if they run out of gas or an engine quits they can just coast to a stop, no big deal.

Fog? Snow? Thunderstorms? They can just slow down, or come to a stop if needed. Heck, train engineers don't even have to steer, they just control the forward or backward movement.

You're right, they can kill many people if they screw up...but it's still a lot harder to fly a plane. Just saying.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I'm not trying to add to this whizzin' match, but as with our military, this is an all volunteer career. As you stated, this crappy pay was in place before many took the job. If the pay was not acceptable at that time, why accept the position? So what's changed? If a concession was approved (ie PSA), is it management's fault or the pilot group's?

Pilots are our own worst enemy.

This is a common note of negativity I hear among pilots. Me personally, I knew the wage scales when I took my job. Don't mind them so much, wish they were better, but I take responsibility for that.

Now, when my company REPEATEDLY comes to me with their fist out, demanding concessions, walking on our contract (that they agreed to) and trying to take from me, citing dubious 'market conditions' that pisses me off. If we're going to cite supply and demand, FINE. Pilots are in short supply and high demand.

Guess they better pay a little more.

 

[Ian_J]

At the same time a "friend" of mine has been working a new job for nearly two years. His hard work and dedication has paid off in raises that put him on par with a 13 year 190 captain. All he does is push papers, work schedules and manage a program. If he has an off day, nobody dies, nobody crashes.

That gave me a laugh... Thanks. I love pilots.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

You just said you weren't an airline pilot. What dog do you have in this fight then? I really couldn't care for APC. In fact, this place is pretty much APC version 2.0

There's never enough money. Ever. You could be paid $250/hr and you'll want 270. You could get paid 270 and you'd say you wanted 290 and therefore not satisfied. So on and on. As for me, I have never voted yes to any paycuts (which is something a lot of pilots cannot say). If a vote comes to me for a paycut, I would vote no. Also, any trips picked up from open time are paid at your straight scale normal wage rate, unless you were assigned a trip on willing to fly status or were above 80 hrs for the month in which case you get premium pay. Now if you are asking me do I think I'm paid enough? My answer would be no, because I can justify it with a quantitative measure of industry average. Take the A320 rates of every US airline, add them, and divide by total airlines to get the industry average scale for every longevity year. Right now my scale is below that industry average, so yes I think I'm on the underpaid side. But at least I can quantify it and tell you what the measuring stick is. You haven't provided anything except the overused we're-all-underpaid! argument.

What would make you happy?

What dog do I have? I may not be an airline pilot now, but I still have a lot more 121 experience than you, and it's probably a career that I would get back into were the time, compensation, and QOL on par with what they need to be.

You need to stop measuring
Your pay against the other carriers. You are measuring against carrier that are in concession art contracts, and you will never be on par if all you are shooting for is "the same pay as the guy the next gate over". What does a 5 year professional in other fields that require years of specialized training make?

I walked away when they asked for pay cuts. I walked into a 15k pay raise, and I was a PIC under a contract that had "set " the bar for my pay rates. By year two I had secured a 15.2% raise. The concept that you can only be paid what your peers are making allows management to run airlines into the ground, slash fares, and walk all over you.