True but there could possibly work required to find out the name. Now there is no doubt given the ‘extra’ information provided. We know based on history that there are often ‘people’ from the various companies that stop in once in a while.
Considering leaving the profession for good, could use advice
- Thread starter 🦈💜
- Start date
Again, as the bearer of unpopular news, that’s a pretty OK schedule, better than a lot of junior narrowbody FO schedules at the big airlines. And if you live in base, it’s a fantastic schedule. But then, I’m of the school of thought that weekends are over-rated because everything is crowded, can’t go to Costco and too many of my colleagues run themselves ragged all year for the flex of saying “I have weekends and holidays off” but are so worn-out they don’t do jack anyway.
This is 70% in category as 350 CA, 2100/17000-ish pilots, 26 years of seniority:
I have a busy schedule, but it’s what the money is for. Work is…. Well, work!
. I provide labor, they provide compensation and leave it up to me to seek fulfillment.
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Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
I'm skeptical that a forward career move from a regional to an ACMI carrier would look bad to future employers- it is a logical career move to make, even if it isn't necessarily the right more for everyone, and is in no way comparable to leaving flying again or even to a lateral move. Another thing to consider is, with the regionals all being short on captains, legacies are very reluctant to "poach" their own regional feed from what I hear, and dislike hiring pilots from regionals that do flying for them as a result. Though I've heard rumors that they like to poach their competition's regional feed- perhaps this is one area where the OP is at a disadvantage since SkyWest provides feed to 4 different mainline partners, even though it's an advantage overall since it greatly lowers the chance of getting Comaired.
Speaking of Comairing, another reason to take the first available opportunity to escape the regionals is that, at the regionals, you are always at risk of getting Comaired. TSA, Compass, ExpressJet...it seems like regionals have been getting Comaired left and right in recent years.
If the current rate of pilot hiring is an anomaly, it is still an anomaly on the high side. As nice it it would be if it did, the pilot hiring climate of 2022-'23 is probably never coming back. Remember that solar eclipse that was visible across much of North America in April? The 2022-'23 pilot hiring climate was a bit like that- caused by an incredibly rare confluence of factors that will probably never happen in the same place in any of our lifetimes: a host of early retirements when it looks like there were going to be mass furloughs in 2020, followed by a much faster return of air travel demand then expected, etc.
Maybe not, but based on what she's posted it sounds like she's looking for any avenue of escape.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
No need to be skeptical. My company has been a revolving door of people who have moved on from the regionals and use it as a springboard to bigger and better things.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Below is my schedule as a NB CA at United, which would be very similar to your schedule as a new FO. It’s not all rainbows and unicorns, and not a whole lot different than your current schedule.
That being said, this is the best job I’ve ever had and it’s not even close. I make it work for me and set myself up for success. Firstly, I live in base. If I had to commute to the above schedule, I’d be miserable. I’ve moved probably a dozen times since starting in aviation. If my base closes tomorrow, I’ll move to another base. I’d rather have quality of life vs living in a city I love. I also really enjoy working weekends like @derg stated. I want my off days during the week when I can take the GF out for a nice dinner and not have to worry about getting a reservation. Working on the weekends also allows me to enjoy the layovers with the FO’s and do fun things to kill the time when I’m on the road.
Now I’m not trying to pile on but I feel you need a little tough love. If you’re this miserable at SkyWest, getting to Delta/United isn’t the magic pill. You need to figure out how to manage your life and career in a healthy way. Stop trying to rush your career. It’s going to drive you mad. Enjoy the ride a little. Do the right things. Work on bettering yourself and your resume and let the opportunities come to you. If you do this, I guarantee you they will come. Re-read the underlined.
A couple years ago I was a 747 CA with 6000 hours not getting any calls. I talked to some people in hiring positions to ask them what I was doing wrong. The best advice I received was stop trying to get hired at airline XYZ. Any airline you want to work at put an app in for and update them regularly. From there, stop worrying about working for those airlines and worry about yourself and your resume. All airlines are looking for the same thing. Well rounded applicants. I started concentrating on volunteering, resume/app prep, interview prep, and added job responsibilities. A year or so later I had 3 power 5 interviews and two legacy job offers.
Sorry for the long winded and possibly incoherent rant from my iPhone but just trying to give you my two cents.
That being said, this is the best job I’ve ever had and it’s not even close. I make it work for me and set myself up for success. Firstly, I live in base. If I had to commute to the above schedule, I’d be miserable. I’ve moved probably a dozen times since starting in aviation. If my base closes tomorrow, I’ll move to another base. I’d rather have quality of life vs living in a city I love. I also really enjoy working weekends like @derg stated. I want my off days during the week when I can take the GF out for a nice dinner and not have to worry about getting a reservation. Working on the weekends also allows me to enjoy the layovers with the FO’s and do fun things to kill the time when I’m on the road.
Now I’m not trying to pile on but I feel you need a little tough love. If you’re this miserable at SkyWest, getting to Delta/United isn’t the magic pill. You need to figure out how to manage your life and career in a healthy way. Stop trying to rush your career. It’s going to drive you mad. Enjoy the ride a little. Do the right things. Work on bettering yourself and your resume and let the opportunities come to you. If you do this, I guarantee you they will come. Re-read the underlined.
A couple years ago I was a 747 CA with 6000 hours not getting any calls. I talked to some people in hiring positions to ask them what I was doing wrong. The best advice I received was stop trying to get hired at airline XYZ. Any airline you want to work at put an app in for and update them regularly. From there, stop worrying about working for those airlines and worry about yourself and your resume. All airlines are looking for the same thing. Well rounded applicants. I started concentrating on volunteering, resume/app prep, interview prep, and added job responsibilities. A year or so later I had 3 power 5 interviews and two legacy job offers.
Sorry for the long winded and possibly incoherent rant from my iPhone but just trying to give you my two cents.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
again for the people in the back
I need a sign that says something like “Everyone hired before today was hired under a different set of circumstances and expectations than today’s applicants. A handful of us know what those are…. TODAY. Please take our word for it, we know what we’re talking about.”
Not long winded at all, I’m proud to see a guy I knew as a CFI drop a knowledge bomb like that as a major airline captain. Good work my friend!
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Sorry, the several comments above of not caring about weekends off…. How to say your don’t have kids without saying you don’t have kids.
Once the school year starts (late Aug to mid June for a lot of folks), weekends off for family life is everything.
Y’all are absolutely correct that traffic is less on weekdays than weekends to get stuff done (shopping, etc) but it’s less so with the post pandemic WFH environment. Now any weekday seems busy too.
But you can’t ignore weekends when there’s kids in the picture.
Once the school year starts (late Aug to mid June for a lot of folks), weekends off for family life is everything.
Y’all are absolutely correct that traffic is less on weekdays than weekends to get stuff done (shopping, etc) but it’s less so with the post pandemic WFH environment. Now any weekday seems busy too.
But you can’t ignore weekends when there’s kids in the picture.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I know the ACMI is frowned upon by some here because they're not prestigious enough, but if the schedule works for you then it can be the best gig.
My QOL is a million times better since coming to this side of the world. I have more quality time with my family, and have more time to do things.
My QOL is a million times better since coming to this side of the world. I have more quality time with my family, and have more time to do things.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
So this is a fairly interesting aspect of this discussion, and it's finally getting to the meat, for me. I have no interest in weekends or holidays off. But I need enough time to exist as an entity outside of work.
Work is not the only important thing in my life.
At the end of the day, if you guys look at my schedule and see a "pretty OK schedule," then I doubt there's much more to say. I have never worked remotely this hard, and I don't want to work this hard on an ongoing basis ever again, unless it's in service of something bigger than me. (Though I will say I'd be more willing to put up with it if I knew there was an end in sight.)
There's a reason WN became my primary choice when I learned more about the various operators. I don't mind working hard when I'm on, but I NEED days off—in blocks—to recover.
I assume "LSR" is some form of reserve? Do you anticipate working each of those days?
2015 - 2020 at my airline was great. 2021 began to involve large blocks of out-of-base reserve, including seven 5-day blocks in a row with 2 days in between each block, and that nearly broke me. I was sitting in the airport "short stay" hotel, unable to leave, for 4-5 days at a time, unable to go out and do anything, on a 2-hr callout with hotel vans that ran every 30 mins. I'd get back and have just enough time to unpack, wash my uniforms, and re-pack before I had to head back out.
This job, with my older schedules (2015 - 2021) is perfect for me.
With 90+ hour, 10-off schedules, it's a nightmare for me.
Emphasis: for me.
Also for me: If I flew every day marked "LSR" on your schedule above, I'd be ... well, pretty miserable.
If I did it at a dead-end job with no way to carve out time and no end in sight, I'd be just as miserable as I am now.
For reference, the month with all the long trips was a commuter schedule. The one with all the locals is a in-base schedule.
I haven't had time on the road during layovers to do more than eat, shower, sleep more than a few times since coming back. I've only managed to buy dinner for one FO, and it was just ramen in the hotel lobby in burbank, late at night, with an early show the next day. Most of our overnights are 10-12 hours. I used to get decently long layovers in interesting places, but they're rare now.
That's not "tough love," it's what I started this thread to find out.
I don't care about money. I do care about QoL. And while it took a lot to shake this out, I think we're getting there.
It may just be my view from the trenches, but I see no healthy way forward, barring some big shift. With the forced transitions at my company, anyone who might have been junior to me is getting forced to the other aircraft, in another base, with a multi-year seat lock. (TBF, most of them are bailing.)
What exactly do you mean by that? I'm really the last person to describe as that, as I see it. What am I missing?
I enjoyed the ride for most of the past decade. At the moment, "the ride" is, from my point of view, rolling down a mountain towards a cliff, and even the parts I enjoy are getting less fun. I think I've said this before, but I don't want to become one of those bitter, gross CAs.
But morale here is really low for a reason.
So everyone keeps saying things that conflict—specifically, you're saying "let them come to you," and others are saying "they're not going to come to you." I think everyone in this thread grossly underestimates how much I respect them, and that many people assume because I don't take their advice over someone else's, or that I try to challenge what they're saying that I'm just being argumemtative.
I'm not.
I'm straight up telling folks here that I'm in a tough spot, and I'm asking for advice. I'm carefully weighing the things people say, and I'm trying to get more information. I'm also not in a great place because I'm cranky, exhausted, and frustrated.
But my motivation is to do a great job at something I'm good at, enjoy the things that only we get to see, occasionally get an interesting overnight or two, pass my love of aviation on to others . . . and also enjoy the rest of my life, because it goes fast. If the only way "forward" in aviation is to spend it like a grumpy zombie wageslave, I'd rather find a different way.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
There is a difference between choosing your RAP and getting your 4th, 5th or even 6th choice for your RAP.
How do you not understand how seniority works?
There was one PLC who was over 80 hours this month and at least 5-6 others with over 70 hours. That's just in SEA. What is wrong with you?
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BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
You understand that I don't bid to work on weekends right? I can't hold weekends off. I'm not choosing this. I couldn't hold captain in PDX or any other base for that matter.
The OP if we were even hiring, would likely get short call red eye reserve RAP working on weekdays and would
My parents didn’t get weekends or many holidays off and I think I did alright. I learned that mommy and daddy still love me but as long as I expect there to be food when I open the refrigerator, it meant they sometimes wouldn’t see the me play sax in the school band.
Important life lessons learned early. Christmas on the 21st, birthday dinner a week early, Thanksgiving on a Saturday, no big deal as an adult.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Exactly. I grew up with my dad working on ships with a schedule of two weeks on/ two weeks off. It was fantastic. He missed some stuff, and holidays weren't on the correct days. But family time still happened. And I got better quality time with my dad when he had those schedules.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
I think the OP should look into Omni! Not a huge pilot group, don’t hire all that often but they fly all the good parts of ACMI in military charter. They also work significantly less on average with the greatest chance of exploration during long layovers on the road and similar chunks of time off at home.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
A friend is a captain there and frankly I find his quality of life to be amazing.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
And that’s just because we get to meet up for meals almost every month!
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Quiet now, the adults are talking. I can’t believe a grown ass man is going to argue with me about Costco lines on a weekday just to spread his verbal diarrhea. For others listening to an important topic however, here we go:
I have a ten year old daughter that I co-parent and I make it work just fine. Quality time, is quality time regardless of the day of the week. My daughter isn’t going to give a damn if she spent a quality day with me on a Saturday or a Thursday. Yes I might miss the Lacrosse match or have to watch it over FaceTime but I’m still present and taking her to practice during the week. We are doing July 4th on the 3rd this year. Again she doesn’t care. Put in the time whether it be on the weekends or weekdays and your kids will be just fine.
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Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
No doubt.
But my ability to hold consistent Saturdays off is a key factor whether the son enrolls in rec soccer.
A lot of holidays can be celebrated a day before/after so I don’t put emphasis on that, except both Eids and Halloween. Can’t really go knockin on Nov 1. I’ll specifically bid vacation over Halloween, and then trade every day around that except maintaining Oct 31 off.
As a parent pilot, you can make a lot of things work. But life is infinitely easier if you can hold weekends off.