People Will Tell You This Profession Can't Get Better

[HVYMETALDRVR]

Uhh... Those are IBT's proposed rates. What are the TA rates?

The full details will be released next week...

 

[dasleben]

I wouldn't get too excited. Union proposed rates overshoot the actual mark by design.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I applaud the pay gains, and quite honestly you probably have Eagle and Xjet pilots to thank for them, but a little perspective is still needed, and maybe a little too much euphoria is present. Overall, the industry still pays absurdly low, and combined with FAR117 now putting a fairly large cap on the credit you can do (I did 150+ per month for 4 months in a row when I first upgraded without using vacation, try that now!) it severely limits your income ability. And my biggest beef still remains, and that is the fact that the disparity between low and top pay is ridiculous.

I'm not saying it's ideal or everything we could hope it could be. Or even what it 'should' be. I'm just saying it's a sign of a reversing trend.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

narcissism
nar·cis·sism
noun
1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity. Synonyms: self-centeredness,smugness, egocentrism.

You beat me to it. This guy is off his rocker.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

1. The guy who made that is an incredibly respected member here...
2. The video is not a 20 yr old saying "OMG flying is so freaking cool" trying to impress his friends, but an attempt to show the amazing things pilots get to see and do on a regular basis. It's not like a JetU promo.

Still don't see it. There's just far too many of these RJ videos online with terrible music. This one isn't any different.

 

[dasleben]

(Also, these rates are still terrible unless you plan on being at Republic for 20 years).

P.S.: Actually, they're still terrible.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I'll try to give some honest and constructive criticism here. I'm not convinced that it's your ideas that provoke people, but your delivery. It's obvious that you're passionate about trying to improve the industry, but in many of your writings about this you set up this straw man who disagrees with your message and attacks you for it. I've never seen that (at least on the internet). The criticism I've seen comes down to this:



...which, given the content of your post above, isn't that off base.

If you want to be an effective leader, I would suggest talking about *ideas* and not so much about yourself and the role you play...something like this:

"Rest rules and ATP requirements are having a strong effect already. Regionals are struggling to find qualified pilots, concessionary regional contracts are being rejected, and major airline hiring is the strongest it's been in a decade. We're seeing tangible benefits of raising experience requirements and increasing safety."

That's just how I would phrase it if I wasn't really interested in telling a nonexistent enemy that I told them so.



1. The guy who made that is an incredibly respected member here...
2. The video is not a 20 yr old saying "OMG flying is so freaking cool" trying to impress his friends, but an attempt to show the amazing things pilots get to see and do on a regular basis. It's not like a JetU promo.

Fair enough. My style does tend to flirt with the limits of being bombastic at times, I grant you that. That said- pilots are a notably egocentric bunch. I'm certainly no exception. In that regard, I write to appeal the thoughts of the individual and can only really say it from the perspective that is my own. That might be why it seems my delivery could be improved upon- we're all pretty 'type A' and it might seem like I think my thoughts or perspective are somehow 'superior'.

Not at all. As for the criticism, I've been laughed at, and I've been told that I was wasting my time. And while you don't see the criticism, I have, but it's not even me bringing it up. More than one person has PMed me about how or why I stand my ground in spite of the backlash that sometimes generates. The question was thought-provoking, and this piece was the result.

That, and I want to be a little over-the-top sometimes. First off- I've tried writing neutral, thought provoking things- people ignore them. Second, I want to inspire pilots to get a little worked up. I'm trying to inspire people to be bold and support ideas that go against the grain, not to be demurely diplomatic.

And yes, I've been called names, too. For example, I was once called 'entitled' for quitting an unpaid job that salaried people did otherwise, and were getting laid off. I believe the exact response to my statement was "Ah, I love the smell of entitlement in the morning." And just here in this thread I was called a narcissist, for writing a piece intended to demonstrate that if you believe something you'll be criticized for it, but speaking out and achieving results can occur regardless of that.

I'm not writing to the people who speak long and loudly already. I'm writing to the people who don't think there's a positive outcome possible in this field when management comes knocking, and I'm writing to the people that do, but are afraid to speak out.

There are people in the industry that are afraid to speak up because they are afraid of being criticized by their peers. Not management. Other pilots.

But I will take your suggestions in due consideration. I have a dramatic streak in me that gets the best me sometimes. Mea culpa.

 

[wheelsup]

I'm not saying it's ideal or everything we could hope it could be. Or even what it 'should' be. I'm just saying it's a sign of a reversing trend.

You posted PROPOSED rates? Seriously? You've got a boner over union proposed rates?!?

 

[Firebird2XC]

You posted PROPOSED rates? Seriously? You've got a boner over union proposed rates?!?

I was told those were final rates. It appears I have a bad source. Even still, Bedford himself stood up and said "We have to raise pay."

Even that should count for something.

 

[BobDDuck]

I was told those were final rates. It appears I have a bad source. Even still, Bedford himself stood up and said "We have to raise pay."

The talk about a year ago was that they were going to raise FO pay (hurray! we got a pay raise) and chop captain pay (boooo... concessions!). So Bedford saying anything, including "Praise Jesus", doesn't really mean a lot.

And yes... your source is bad. In fact, if your source told you those were actual TA rates your source sucks.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

And yes, I've been called names, too. For example, I was once called 'entitled' for quitting an unpaid job that salaried people did otherwise, and were getting laid off. I believe the exact response to my statement was "Ah, I love the smell of entitlement in the morning." And just here in this thread I was called a narcissist, for writing a piece intended to demonstrate that if you believe something you'll be criticized for it, but speaking out and achieving results can occur regardless of that.

I'm not writing to the people who speak long and loudly already. I'm writing to the people who don't think there's a positive outcome possible in this field when management comes knocking, and I'm writing to the people that do, but are afraid to speak out.

There are people in the industry that are afraid to speak up because they are afraid of being criticized by their peers. Not management. Other pilots.

But I will take your suggestions in due consideration. I have a dramatic streak in me that gets the best me sometimes. Mea culpa.

Did you forget what you wrote about me? That post that was deleted by mods here? Not only are you narcissistic, you are a judgemental maniac. As a regional pilot you fly outsourced feed with a dozen other competitors. You either take what they offer you or get gutted (a la Comair). Take your pick. Your words won't mean much nor will they do anything to change what's coming your way.

 

[hcaeborev]

What difference does it make when it was made? This was still back when portable electronic devices were a no-no below 10k. The music just puts it over the top. Why is it you can't find a single cockpit/inflight video without some sort of garbage music.

Who cares if guys wear go pros?

I have a newsflash for you....Outside of these forums there are a lot of happy pilots out there. Can the pay be better? Yes. That doesn't mean we don't do cool almost every day at work.

It's ok to be proud of what you do....it's not "SJS" it's not "selling out". I got into this because I love to fly. I don't love every day I go to work but I can guarandamntee you that if I left this job for almost anything else outside of "highly compensated high quality only pornstar" I'd miss it on the very first day.

90% of the negative rhetoric heard on these boards was probably learned on these boards and just run with....OMG GOJET SUCKS! SJS SCABS blah blah blah blah.....drink a beer and realize you could have it worse.

 

[Rodger Wilco]

@Firebird2XC You are trying to be positive and encouraging.

I respect that. Keep fighting the good fight brother!

There will always be someone looking to naysay and focus on negatives, I am going to do my best to make sure it is not me!

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[zmiller4]

First off- I've tried writing neutral, thought provoking things- people ignore them.

Here's the thing: if the world at large ignores your writings that you consider thought-provoking, is it a problem with them, or is it an issue with your ideas or communication?

Look, I really, really like the idea of *all* airline pilots having more than 250 hrs of experience. I'm nowhere near educated enough about it to say that 500, or 1000, or 1500, or 5000 hours is adequate...but having grown up with a real respect for airline pilots, I would like to believe that someone's first flying job is not with passengers who bout their tickets off of majorairline.com.

Second, I want to inspire pilots to get a little worked up. I'm trying to inspire people to be bold and support ideas that go against the grain, not to be demurely diplomatic.

What part of wanted better work rules and pay is "against the grain"? Who out there is like "yeah, I'd like to take a pay cut for working more hours"? How is what you're advocating controversial?

And just here in this thread I was called a narcissist

I'd just re-read what you wrote and see if that comment makes sense. That's all.

I have a newsflash for you....Outside of these forums there are a lot of happy pilots out there. Can the pay be better? Yes. That doesn't mean we don't do cool almost every day at work.

It's ok to be proud of what you do....it's not "SJS" it's not "selling out".

You have no idea. You're responding to a JetU alumnus.

 

[mikecweb]

Thank you, all. Please continue to spread the word and support your fellow pilots.

This is exactly what I mean. You had two people respond to you positively, I copied a couple lines from a dictionary and there were a couple posts about a youtube clip. You say "Thank you , all". I get it you want to be labeled the leader of the revolution. Good luck with that but you gotta stop calling people trolls and telling people to "be quiet" to be a leader. True leaders don't seek vindication. 98% of the members of this website contribute positively to this profession in one way or another. Get in line, you are one of many.
Namaste.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Leaders tend to actually be in, you know, leadership positions. Not writing narcissistic rants from behind a keyboard.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I was told those were final rates. It appears I have a bad source. Even still, Bedford himself stood up and said "We have to raise pay."

Even that should count for something.

At the same time a "friend" of mine has been working a new job for nearly two years. His hard work and dedication has paid off in raises that put him on par with a 13 year 190 captain. All he does is push papers, work schedules and manage a program. If he has an off day, nobody dies, nobody crashes.

This job only required a 4 year degree. No extra 30-80k of flight training. It has a top flight insurance plan, with better rates than 9e/9L had under the "new" contract. 401k,529 match. He can work from home if needed, sees his family every day, doesn't have to worry about missing a trip, gets a bonus (what's that) etc.

There is no reason that a captain on a plane like that should make less than my friend from day 1. There really needs to be a change.

 

[Firebird2XC]

The talk about a year ago was that they were going to raise FO pay (hurray! we got a pay raise) and chop captain pay (boooo... concessions!). So Bedford saying anything, including "Praise Jesus", doesn't really mean a lot.

And yes... your source is bad. In fact, if your source told you those were actual TA rates your source sucks.

Pay is still starting to rise. THAT is something.

 

[amorris311]

Namaste.

Two things.....
1. Did you bow when you wrote that?

2. You said Namaste, which means you have been in the spiritual ritual of yoga. . I think you are jealous of @Seggy and his vacuum.

 

[Seggy]

Pay is still starting to rise. THAT is something.

Have you seen the agreed to rates?

Then, have you seen the work rules that surround those rates?

Pay is a result if both.