Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
You can...but I don't believe that anyone currently in this industry is really in that situation right now. If they are, its not because they're looking for anything extravagant, especially at the regional level.
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- Thread starter derg
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You can...but I don't believe that anyone currently in this industry is really in that situation right now. If they are, its not because they're looking for anything extravagant, especially at the regional level.
thats because your an obama loving socialist yarble yarble yarble
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Yup. He's so dreamy.
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
I'll add that mgmt signs the contract too. There are 2 sides to every negotiation. We don't have all that much ability to force a contract.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
When you're not looking at a ton of retirements or people leaving, how do you think QoL gets improved other than growth? If you're not moving up the seniority list, your QoL isn't improving. We keep growing, I eventually get based at home. We stop growing, I'm commuting to JFK until I'm old and grey....or at least until we start seeing a few retirements in 2017.
I'm not saying fly planes for regional wages. I'm not saying give up the farm for growth. I AM saying pilots can get too much and regret it later. We can't get the company to give us a straight answer on the A321s we start flying in a few months. I don't think spinning our wheels on A330 pay is gonna go very far right now. I'm okay with industry average pay. Not below, which is where we are now, but average. If that makes me "defeatest" or a "sell out," fine. I really couldn't care less what guys on the internet think of me. I'm sure a lot of what I'm saying is probably being mis-read or whatever. There are guys in this thread that know me, know how I feel and how I think. There are guys I've never met in my life. I don't think by being happy with being in the middle of the road of the pay band we're "subsidzing growth."
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
If everybody settled for "industry average," then the average would never move.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Yeah, but not everyone can be in first place, either.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
That's why we have pattern bargaining. Everyone is supposed to do their part to raise each corner of the house, one at a time. When someone decides to ride coattails and contribute nothing, the whole system collapses.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I think pattern bargaining pretty much failed in the past couple of decades. Or if not failed proved that when one end crumbles, the rest come tumbling down after. If we get our raise that puts us where we should be guess what happens to the average? It still goes up. We're just not in the top 3.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, individual pilot groups failed the profession. While groups like Delta and UAL were fighting to keep jacking up their corners of the house, groups like SWAPA weren't playing ball, and the house had a corner that was 20 feet lower than the rest of the corners. Obviously, that's not tenable, so the house came falling down. When everyone plays ball, the system works beautifully. What doesn't work is having a huge disparity in rates. That always results in everyone falling back to the lowest common denominator, or lower.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Those SWA bastads...
According to APC, 10 year Capt pay at SWA is 212/hr. UAL is 179, and DAL is 201. And those SWA Capts do extra duty pushing wheelchairs when necessary. Friggen Bastads....
RRPower
Well-Known Member
They also have had 3 hull loses, one death, multiple damaged aircraft due to fast taxiing, a couple near misses, and (according to an ATN CA last week) revocation of operating into EYW because of near or partial runway overruns, as well as a almost sticking on into a mountain missing by a mear 300ft...All pilot error and all negligence. They should do less pushing of wheelchairs and more flying the damn airplane like one is supposed to.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
If 9/11 hadn't happened, and Delta had never filed bankruptcy, would SWA rate be higher, or would Delta have continued to build on C2K rates?
If I remember, 10 year 737A rate was 250 an hour. SWA would still be below that.
We have had pilot induced accidents at SWA, I am pretty sure every airline has. We also operate an airline that has around 3500 flights a day that are operated safely. Not sure where your ATN pilot got his info, but that is a complete lie, we haven't stopped operations in EYW since we have started flying there. We all strive for perfection as pilots, unfortunately it doesn't always happen. Every airline has had mishaps and accidents, and when you start thinking it won't happen to you is when you get into trouble.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
Wait, SWA hasn't always had the highest paid pilots in the industry? Surely you can't be serious...
And someone explain to me again how requiring a new hire to have a 737 type before coming to day 1 Isn't a PFT operation? Yep, SWA can still...eh forget it.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"If 9/11 hadn't happened, and Delta had never filed bankruptcy, would SWA rate be higher, or would Delta have continued to build on C2K rates?"
I can't believe you said that. Yeah, had DAL never filed BK the world would have been a better place. Had 9/11 never happened, the world would have been a better place. Had C2K and UAL's comparison held out, the world would have been a better place. But that's not how things played out. Hey kids, I'm not really an SWA apologist. But I read stuff here and I just can't let it go without comment. Whatever makes you happy...
I can't believe you said that. Yeah, had DAL never filed BK the world would have been a better place. Had 9/11 never happened, the world would have been a better place. Had C2K and UAL's comparison held out, the world would have been a better place. But that's not how things played out. Hey kids, I'm not really an SWA apologist. But I read stuff here and I just can't let it go without comment. Whatever makes you happy...
There sure are some SWA haters on here. I hope none of you guys ever have to request a jumpseat on us. I bought my type after I was hired, I also had a 4 day trip last month that I could have paid for another 737 type rating. In my mind that is a good return on investment, and hopefully will continue to be, I will know for sure by the time I retire.
How'd this become a SWA thread anyways. Oh and yes ATN pilot, SWAPA again is the downfall of this industry. ALPA has done a stellar job representing regional and major airline pilots.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
After you were hired OK, but could you have showed up to class without it?
Glad the money is still rolling in for you, sincerely hope it continues to do so. Still not for me.
You wouldn't be put into class without it. I am guessing that requirement will go away once/if we ever start hiring again. We bought an airline, brought all of their pilots over but only about a 1/3 of their airplanes over so we are going to be overstaffed for awhile, just my guess. Hopefully the money will start rolling in for you also! It is nice to be paid well and work for a company you like doing a job you love, hopefully for me that will last a career, but things change in this industry faster than the Chargers can blow a 21 point lead!
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
DE727UPS said:
You must have missed the part where SWA captains topped out at $170/hr when everyone else in the industry was getting $230/hr.
But hey, keep up that SWA apologist nonsense while simultaneously having an intense hatred for anyone who PFT'd. That's not inconsistent or anything.
