Is it legal to fly without paper charts IFR?

Pilot2087

Well-Known Member
Flying IFR part 91, with a Garmin 1000 glass cockpit, is it legal to fly without approach plates if the plates on the Garmin 1000 are all up to date? (I know its probably not a good Idea in case of a MFD failure)


Also with the Jeppesen subscription, How do I find the Departure Procedures for like the smaller airports in the Garmin? I can find the STAR's and SID's, but I cant find anywhere in the Jeppesen subscription package on where to find the DP's
 

tgrayson

New Member
Flying IFR part 91, with a Garmin 1000 glass cockpit, is it legal to fly without approach plates if the plates on the Garmin 1000 are all up to date? (I know its probably not a good Idea in case of a MFD failure)
What regulation requires charts for Part 91 operations, small airplanes, even when you don't have a glass cockpit?
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
There is no FAR that says you MUST have any charts at all. Therefore, IFR with only G1000 charts is legal. Like you said, not a good idea, but legal. You would only get in trouble if something happened.
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
There is no FAR that says you MUST have any charts at all. Therefore, IFR with only G1000 charts is legal. Like you said, not a good idea, but legal. You would only get in trouble if something happened.
Well, then, if it's "legal" and something happened why would I get into trouble. If "something" happened then wouldn't it probably be an emergency? So, therefore I could deviate from the FAR's as necessary, but if there isn't an FAR about having paper plates how could I get into "trouble"? Follow me?
 

WildcatPilot

Well-Known Member
Well, then, if it's "legal" and something happened why would I get into trouble. If "something" happened then wouldn't it probably be an emergency? So, therefore I could deviate from the FAR's as necessary, but if there isn't an FAR about having paper plates how could I get into "trouble"? Follow me?
I don't think he necessarily meant legal trouble. Just that you would be making things worse for yourself.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Well, then, if it's "legal" and something happened why would I get into trouble. If "something" happened then wouldn't it probably be an emergency? So, therefore I could deviate from the FAR's as necessary, but if there isn't an FAR about having paper plates how could I get into "trouble"? Follow me?
The "something" that typically happens that involves charts would not be an emergency but be airspace related rather than an emergency.

For example, there are a couple of GPS approaches out there with major recent revisions - everything from the inbound fixes to the missed hold fix to how you get there. The something happened will probably involve failure to follow ATC instructions (91.123), failure to have required available information (91.103). Of course, they'll tag on the ubiquitous 91.3 as well.

But, heck, charts is charts and you are right that if you have them with the G1000, then you have them. And there probably isn't much difference between the G1000 going out and dropping your chart book under the seat with no autopilot.
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
Yeah, I see what you're saying Midlife. I was just thinking that the challenge to the original quote was that if something happens that the pilot will be in trouble by the FAA. I'm just so sick of everyone hovering in fear of enforcement without precedent.
Of course, if you don't fly with paper charts and rely on the G1000 and it goes out you're getting what you deserve.
 

USMCmech

Well-Known Member
Of course, if you don't fly with paper charts and rely on the G1000 and it goes out you're getting what you deserve.

If both your G1000 dispalys go out, you're completely SOL anyway. Since you don't have any radios, nav display, transponder, ect.

Of course that's up there with winning the lottery and being hit by lightning on the same day.
 

primate

New Member
If both your G1000 dispalys go out, you're completely SOL anyway. Since you don't have any radios, nav display, transponder, ect.

Of course that's up there with winning the lottery and being hit by lightning on the same day.
You have the backup gyros, and if you have a handheld radio, you might be able to pull off a surveillance approach to get in.
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
That's true. After pondering it, I realized that I've seen students leave paper charts behind more than I've seen the G1000 fail (which is never). So yeah. Electronic charts: probably ok?
 

primate

New Member
How about this scenario, non G1000 let's say.

You're going to do a XC with a student, and on the way out the door in a hurry you print off the ILS plate off the web just in case, since it looks like it might possibly close in by the time you get back. On the way back, sure nuff, going to have to get down through the layer.

But you didn't notice the ILS out of service NOTAM (or it breaks while you're gone), and didn't grab your approach plate binder, so all you have is the one ILS plate on you, but SOL on that one. You know the ILS freq's and DH for a couple of other local airports off the top of your head.

If you can let down below the layer via the ILS, you can discontinue and legally make it VFR underneath to your home airport. What would you do ?

a) fly the neighbor airport ILS off the top of your head, no plate
b) fess up, ask for a let down with help from ATC
c) you know the area, pretty much where you are, just spiral down below the layer, no one has to know
 

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
Also with the Jeppesen subscription, How do I find the Departure Procedures for like the smaller airports in the Garmin? I can find the STAR's and SID's, but I cant find anywhere in the Jeppesen subscription package on where to find the DP's
I been flying with a paper copy of NACO plates even though their out of date. just in case the MFD or PFD goes out I can still shoot an approach.

I have always wondered why Jeppesen or Garmin didn't have the DP's in their system like the NACO has in their book.
 

Greg01

Well-Known Member
If you can, ask ATC. They can usually pull approach plates on various monitors. They could relay all appropriate information. Here you would be technically covered from 91.103 (ATC is giving you the required information).

Now, depending on traffic and the particular mood of the controller, he may not be too happy about giving you all of this information...but it works (not that I know this from experience).

Greg
 

USMCmech

Well-Known Member
If you can, ask ATC. They can usually pull approach plates on various monitors. They could relay all appropriate information. Here you would be technically covered from 91.103 (ATC is giving you the required information).

Now, depending on traffic and the particular mood of the controller, he may not be too happy about giving you all of this information...but it works (not that I know this from experience).
I've done this once. I had to go to an alternate, and the charts that were suposed to be kept in the airplane weren't. Freq, heading, & DH, and I can shoot the ILS. It helped that I had been there before.

Obviously this is not a good plan for normal operations, but it got me safely on the ground.
 

nosehair

Well-Known Member
But you didn't notice the ILS out of service NOTAM (or it breaks while you're gone), and didn't grab your approach plate binder, so all you have is the one ILS plate on you, but SOL on that one. You know the ILS freq's and DH for a couple of other local airports off the top of your head.
If you know any approaches in your head, and it is current and complete, there is no FAR 91 requirement to have paper or any other device for guidance, if you know it. The only way you may get "in trouble" is if your info is not current, or insufficient for ATC to work you.
 

ljg

Well-Known Member
Yes there is. 91.103. If the approach you memorized goes out of service than you're not in compliance.
 
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