I currently go to Ari-Ben, but I'm planning on heading to ATP for my instructor ratings. I am actually quite happy with my choice to go to Aviator, but their CFI program takes way too long, in my opinion. Ari-Ben only hires instructors that went through the entire pro-course, and would indeed be a great spot to instruct, but like I said, I'm not interested in taking 4-6 months to get my three ratings. That being said, my question is...after I finish the 14 day CFI, CFII, MEI course at ATP (by the way, is that only offered in Jacksonville, or at all ATP locations?) do I have a good chance of being hired on with ATP as an instructor? What would you say my percentage would be of getting hired? If so, do you have much say over which ATP location you instruct at? Also, is it even a good place to instruct? Do you typically get a good amount of hours? Are you able to get on with Express Jet with fairly low hours because a lot of your time is multi-engine? How much is multi-engine? I'm just trying to get a feel for my options since I'll be heading over for my instructor ratings in around two months, and would love to have a good idea of where I'm going to instruct before hand. Thanks for you insight.
Instructing At ATP
- Thread starter JSS
- Start date
cybourg12
Well-Known Member
"Are you able to get on with Express Jet with fairly low hours because a lot of your time is multi-engine?"
ahhhh i cant wait for the day when 121 carriers require 1000 hrs to fly right seat (this coming from a 500 hr cfi). dude dont worry about getting on with a regional until you have a grand in your logbook. xjet most likely wont be hiring months from now anyway. to answer your other questions, search the forum, they've been answered many times. good luck. -Matt
ahhhh i cant wait for the day when 121 carriers require 1000 hrs to fly right seat (this coming from a 500 hr cfi). dude dont worry about getting on with a regional until you have a grand in your logbook. xjet most likely wont be hiring months from now anyway. to answer your other questions, search the forum, they've been answered many times. good luck. -Matt
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
Hi JSS,
It looks like you've taken quite a ride in your research and choices of flight schools...
In researching your previous posts it looks like some of your questions have already been answered...
http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=276515#post276515
Many of your posts also tend to be long posts with question after question after question that makes it difficult for good folks to answer without feeling overwhelmed. And... I'm sure you've heard this before on the boards... Most of those questions can be answered via using the search or a simple 5 minute call to 800-ALL-ATPS, or a 5 minute browse of their website www.allatps.com
That being said... I'm a sucker when it comes to trying to help out. But most of my answers will be fairly short and to the point.
Bob
It looks like you've taken quite a ride in your research and choices of flight schools...
In researching your previous posts it looks like some of your questions have already been answered...
http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=276515#post276515
Many of your posts also tend to be long posts with question after question after question that makes it difficult for good folks to answer without feeling overwhelmed. And... I'm sure you've heard this before on the boards... Most of those questions can be answered via using the search or a simple 5 minute call to 800-ALL-ATPS, or a 5 minute browse of their website www.allatps.com
That being said... I'm a sucker when it comes to trying to help out. But most of my answers will be fairly short and to the point.
This was answered by TRAM in the posted link above when you asked the same question.JSS said:
See above answer.JSS said:
See above answer.JSS said:
It has it's good points and it's bad... just like any other job. The good: Guaranteed salary each month whether you fly 1 hour or 100 hours, Multi-Time, Multi-Time, Multi-Time, Housing for only $200/month if needed, Good relationships with many regionals, Bonus's for first time checkride passes, your students are pre-scheduled by the main office, you don't have to go "find" students. The Bad: High pressure to get the students ready for their checks, If your an add-on instructor your days off are not guaranteed. I've had to work up to 14 days in a row but I've also had up to 5 days off in a row. Many younger instructors don't like this next part, but I think it helps make you a bit more rounded and responsible: You are not only a flight instructor, but also an office manager, test proctor, liason between student/examiner, student/corporate office, etc... you are responsible for the funds and bank deposits, opening the office, closing the office, vacumming the office, cleaning the office, etc... Overall... in my opinion, the good outweighs the bad.JSS said:
It depends... Phoenix in the dead of summer... No. Phoenix in the dead of winter... I was busting 100+ a month. DFW, I averaged 75-100 month all year. The best part of course was what hours I was getting were multi.JSS said:
No, you are able to get on with ExpressJet if you get offered an interview and pass it successfully. At this time ATP does have an agreement with them, and several others, which you can view the details of on their website. That being said... the multi doesn't hurt.JSS said:
I was an add-on guy. Out of an average 80+ hour month... maybe 10 was single, the rest was multi.JSS said:
Good luck!JSS said:
Bob
bob
thanks for your reply. i know my posts are long, and often ask several questions. i'm just a detailed guy, and always like to have a handle on my future. yeah, looking back i asked a lot of the same stuff as before. i suppose i was just trying to see if anything's changed recently. mostly i just wanted to get a feel for how current instructors like working there, and realistically if i'd have a chance to get on with 'em after only 14 days there. i appreciate your time, and good luck with everything.
thanks for your reply. i know my posts are long, and often ask several questions. i'm just a detailed guy, and always like to have a handle on my future. yeah, looking back i asked a lot of the same stuff as before. i suppose i was just trying to see if anything's changed recently. mostly i just wanted to get a feel for how current instructors like working there, and realistically if i'd have a chance to get on with 'em after only 14 days there. i appreciate your time, and good luck with everything.
Matt777
Well-Known Member
As I flew cross country to various ATP locations I always asked the instructors how they liked their job... A common response was basically that they will just tough it out for 6 months or so in order to get the time, in spite of working 7 (often long) days a week. There was a guy in Riverside who was happy doing it, even though it was tough, but realize that I really only had a chance to ask 3 or 4 guys and may have missed all the guys who just love it. One guy told me that ATP does not treat their emplyees right and that there is way too much paperwork.
That is just what I happened to find out from the 3 or 4 guys I happened to talk to. Your results may vary.
I'm very happy with my ATP training and my ATP experience overall. I'm not posting to say negative things about ATP, because as I said, I am a happy ATP customer... however, I no longer want to work for them.
As I said, regarding the instructors I talked to, it is just the luck of the draw... there are guys that like working there too- like the guy here on this forum. All I can do is forward on what I discovered in my travels- so that's what you have here. There's no reason for an ATP guy to get mad or anything- I am just forwarding on the info I gathered.
My instructor had been doing it for a year and was totally burned out... and for good reason!
That is just what I happened to find out from the 3 or 4 guys I happened to talk to. Your results may vary.
I'm very happy with my ATP training and my ATP experience overall. I'm not posting to say negative things about ATP, because as I said, I am a happy ATP customer... however, I no longer want to work for them.
As I said, regarding the instructors I talked to, it is just the luck of the draw... there are guys that like working there too- like the guy here on this forum. All I can do is forward on what I discovered in my travels- so that's what you have here. There's no reason for an ATP guy to get mad or anything- I am just forwarding on the info I gathered.
My instructor had been doing it for a year and was totally burned out... and for good reason!
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
The Burn-Out Blues happen...
In my opinion: The younger guys got burned out quicker that than the older ones... the basic reasoning, I thought, was because for a lot of these guys this was their first "real" job, and while it's a cool first "real" job, it's a hard one. Imagine if you went to work at Best Buy, McDonalds, Target, or any other typical "First Time Job" place, and they told you the following:
- No Benefits.
- High pressure environment.
- You have a deadline almost every other day.
- No dedicated days off a week.
- You might work 6 hours in a day... or 14...
- You may not get a day off this week... or next...
- You can't "play" with the merchandise when their are no customers.
- You have to be at work sometimes... even though you don't have any customers.
- You have to maintain the office, trash, cleanliness, transactions, receipts, deposits, testing, etc...
- There's a good possibility that you will work at a store hundreds, maybe thousands of miles from home, friends, and family.
- You must work for an indefinite period of time... (don't know when you'll be hired out of the job)
So... Most younger guys and gals (heck as I look back over it even the older ones) who see, and experience that can get burned out easily.
It can happen when you CFI at a typical FBO as well... especially if you're the "Newbie". No guaraunteed salary, no students just handed to you, you have to out manuever the wolf pack for the guy who just walked in the door for a discovery flight, make your own flyers and business cards, go to the mall parking lots and college campuses with said flyers, deal with the phone call from Mall Security stating that it was against the law to direct advertise without a permit, wash the planes, keep the office up, no twin time until you meet insurance Mins @ 500hrs, and only then if the regular "twin" guy let's you have it, long slow seasonal downturns, lot's of ramen noodles for lunch, "right rudder, right rudder!", etc...
Is the grass greener?
Even I got burned out from time to time and I used to run a busy 24hr/day business that had me working up to 6 days and 80+ hours a week.
But as Monty Python put it so eloquently... "Always look on the bright side of life."
This was my pick me up: I used to take my logbook and total my multi-hours every month... multiply that by @ $180 per hour (the cost to rent a new dual GPS equiped light twin), and come up with something like this... $180 x 85hrs = $15,300 + $1,400 income/bonuses = $16,700 in compensation each month. That boiled down to around +$200,000 in annual compensation... Heck even if I added it up like I split the twin rental with someone it still came out to: $9,050/mo or +$100,000/yr.
Damn that always put a smile on my face!
Bob
In my opinion: The younger guys got burned out quicker that than the older ones... the basic reasoning, I thought, was because for a lot of these guys this was their first "real" job, and while it's a cool first "real" job, it's a hard one. Imagine if you went to work at Best Buy, McDonalds, Target, or any other typical "First Time Job" place, and they told you the following:
- No Benefits.
- High pressure environment.
- You have a deadline almost every other day.
- No dedicated days off a week.
- You might work 6 hours in a day... or 14...
- You may not get a day off this week... or next...
- You can't "play" with the merchandise when their are no customers.
- You have to be at work sometimes... even though you don't have any customers.
- You have to maintain the office, trash, cleanliness, transactions, receipts, deposits, testing, etc...
- There's a good possibility that you will work at a store hundreds, maybe thousands of miles from home, friends, and family.
- You must work for an indefinite period of time... (don't know when you'll be hired out of the job)
So... Most younger guys and gals (heck as I look back over it even the older ones) who see, and experience that can get burned out easily.
It can happen when you CFI at a typical FBO as well... especially if you're the "Newbie". No guaraunteed salary, no students just handed to you, you have to out manuever the wolf pack for the guy who just walked in the door for a discovery flight, make your own flyers and business cards, go to the mall parking lots and college campuses with said flyers, deal with the phone call from Mall Security stating that it was against the law to direct advertise without a permit, wash the planes, keep the office up, no twin time until you meet insurance Mins @ 500hrs, and only then if the regular "twin" guy let's you have it, long slow seasonal downturns, lot's of ramen noodles for lunch, "right rudder, right rudder!", etc...
Is the grass greener?
Even I got burned out from time to time and I used to run a busy 24hr/day business that had me working up to 6 days and 80+ hours a week.
But as Monty Python put it so eloquently... "Always look on the bright side of life."
This was my pick me up: I used to take my logbook and total my multi-hours every month... multiply that by @ $180 per hour (the cost to rent a new dual GPS equiped light twin), and come up with something like this... $180 x 85hrs = $15,300 + $1,400 income/bonuses = $16,700 in compensation each month. That boiled down to around +$200,000 in annual compensation... Heck even if I added it up like I split the twin rental with someone it still came out to: $9,050/mo or +$100,000/yr.
Damn that always put a smile on my face!
Bob
Sodbuster
New Member
Captain Bob, I do the exact same thing with adding the cost (value) of the multi-time into my income. I try to explain that to folks who say it's not worth it. It'll become worth it when you're flying 4 hours a week in a Cessna begging for students. I did that for a month before ATP called me... that sucked. "Right rudder, Right rudder!"
