Delta/NWA back on?

[Bandit_Driver]

The holding group idea didn't work too well for the Shuttle America pilots. The list didn't stay seperate for long and they all ended up getting somewhat stapled in CHQ's list.

 

[Polar742]

The holding group idea didn't work too well for the Shuttle America pilots. The list didn't stay seperate for long and they all ended up getting somewhat stapled in CHQ's list.

They got merged on to the list through the RLA protocols. I guess you were S5. The arbitrator didn't make anyone happy, so he did his job.

 

[aloft]

'Course maybe that's b/c I fly for an airline owned by a holding company with a potential whipsaw over my head. If that started happening at the major level, it would pretty much be the end of the profession as we know it.

You just KNOW that management at some of the mainline carriers have watched all the whipsawing at the regional level and dreamt of doing the same.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

They got merged on to the list through the RLA protocols. I guess you were S5. The arbitrator didn't make anyone happy, so he did his job.

I wouldn't say he made everyone unhappy. It was pretty much a one sided meger as the S5 FO's lost seniority, upgrades, and some were forced to take pay cust and ALL CA's were downgraded to FO's.

I would imagine it is going to be quite a battle to merge the DL and NWA lists.

 

[SmoothLanderJ]

I wouldn't say he made everyone unhappy. It was pretty much a one sided meger as the S5 FO's lost seniority, upgrades, and some were forced to take pay cust and ALL CA's were downgraded to FO's.

I would imagine it is going to be quite a battle to merge the DL and NWA lists.

...And I agree. I hope this merger does NOT happpen, but who knows........

 

[Velocipede]

Hopefully, these two pilot groups are monitoring the ALPA National message board and observing how poisonous the AWA/AAA SLI has been.

They really need to get a grip, be diplomatic, make some minor personal sacrifices and move forward with their careers.

 

[H46Bubba]

Re: Delta/NWA back on? (Uh oh!)

Any details?

Delta Accord Paves Way for Northwest Deal, People Say (Update1)

By [bnRSN=1] Mary Jane Credeur [] and [bnRSN=1] Mary Schlangenstein []
April 10 (Bloomberg) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. and its pilots agreed on a tentative contract to clear the way for a merger with Northwest Airlines Corp. that would create the world's largest carrier, people familiar with the talks said.
The pilot accord includes higher pay and an equity stake in the combined airline, which would keep Delta's name and Atlanta headquarters, said the people, who didn't want to be identified because the plan is still private. The tie-up may be announced next week, the people said.
To work around an impasse between Delta and Northwest pilots, who couldn't agree on how to mesh their ranks, Delta is drawing up the new contract with just its 7,000 pilots, said the people. Northwest's 5,000 pilots will be asked to join under a single contract later, the people said.
Negotiations to create a combined seniority list may take months to complete, the people said. Pilots for both companies are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association.
The merger includes a small premium for Northwest investors, three of the people said.
Delta spokeswoman Betsy Talton declined to comment, other than to reiterate that the company's board committee to assess mergers remains active. Tammy Lee, a spokeswoman for Eagan, Minnesota-based Northwest, declined to comment.
To contact the reporters on this story: Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta at mcredeur@bloomberg.net; Mary Schlangenstein in Dallas at maryc.s@kbloomberg.net

 

[asl]

I fail to understand why it's so difficult to merge pilot lists?
Can someone explain...
I mean surely you just take date started with the airline (whichever airline that is) and rank everyone by their start date.
What's so difficult about that?

 

[chrisdahut1]

I wouldn't say he made everyone unhappy. It was pretty much a one sided meger as the S5 FO's lost seniority, upgrades, and some were forced to take pay cust and ALL CA's were downgraded to FO's.

I would imagine it is going to be quite a battle to merge the DL and NWA lists.

I can agree on your point that the Captain's got somewhat hosed, but most of the FO's I think had it alright. I was pushed down 20 numbers by FOs, and lost 6 months of seniority gained...add the captain's to the equation, and I had a lower number then what I started at the previous year. The FO's now enjoy seniority numbers in the 800-900 range out of a company of 2200 pilots, and can all have easily have held captain positions in the 170 by now. They weren't stapled by any means, and overall made out well.

What irked me the most about the integration was that the top 700 or so pilots at the time didn't get bumped down even one seniority number. Only the bottom 500, along with the S5 pilots had to deal with the issues of lost seniority. Talk about the guys at the top negotiating a sweet deal for themselves at the expense of those most junior- business as usual in the airline industry.

 

[Nick]

I fail to understand why it's so difficult to merge pilot lists?
Can someone explain...
I mean surely you just take date started with the airline (whichever airline that is) and rank everyone by their start date.
What's so difficult about that?

Different airlines conduct hiring at different times. Those streaks of hiring years and non-hiring years might be completely opposite.

A ten year pilot at Delta might be 50% up the list but a ten year pilot at Northwest might only be 20% up the list. If you merge solely based on dates of hire, you can see what friction it might cause.

Two airlines merging with different fleet compositions also creates problems. Take America West and US Airways. The US Airways pilots might say, "those A-330s should be reserved for us...those America West guys and gals were never going to get to fly those if we had not merged." The America West folks would likely disagree, citing the fact that any airline could purchase widebody aircraft in the future and they might have been able to do flying like that after all. That is where some people want to create "fences" to fence-off fleet types based on what original company a pilot worked before the merger. The red/green/blue book thing at NWA is an example of this.

 

[kellwolf]

Also keep in mind "expectations" since that was a major part of the AWA/US Airways deal. If Delta were buying a carrier like Airtran or Midwest and went with date of hire, you'd have guys that would never have been able to fly 777s suddenly able to bid over guys that went to Delta JUST to fly a 777.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the philosophy, but it's another wrench in the machine.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Just develop a single "Holding" company, and operate the two companies with seperately.

No need to merge the lists anymore, and keep them seperate.

Current scope language would prevent that. The question is whether DALPA gives up that scope language temporarily to facilitate a merger. That is the rumor, and I certainly hope it is false.

Oh I know that possibility exists. . .BUT. . .I would hope (*gasp*) that we have some more stable minds at both NWA and Delta than at US Airways.

Events to date seem to indicate that that's not the case, unfortunately.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

I can agree on your point that the Captain's got somewhat hosed, but most of the FO's I think had it alright. I was pushed down 20 numbers by FOs, and lost 6 months of seniority gained...add the captain's to the equation, and I had a lower number then what I started at the previous year. The FO's now enjoy seniority numbers in the 800-900 range out of a company of 2200 pilots, and can all have easily have held captain positions in the 170 by now. They weren't stapled by any means, and overall made out well.

What irked me the most about the integration was that the top 700 or so pilots at the time didn't get bumped down even one seniority number. Only the bottom 500, along with the S5 pilots had to deal with the issues of lost seniority. Talk about the guys at the top negotiating a sweet deal for themselves at the expense of those most junior- business as usual in the airline industry.

Chris, I'm glad we agree the S5 capts got hosed and the CHQ top pilots made out great. But we are going to have to agree to disagree on the FO's.

 

[Nick]

Here's a new article.



http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...4B-5C81-4D9D-8472-DBF592DD32E0}&dist=hplatest

As already reported, a deal between the airlines has been in limbo since January because pilots couldn't come to an amicable compromise on seniority, which ultimately determines the size of a pilot's paycheck. Delta has said it wouldn't agree to a merger until its workforce was fully on board.
On Friday, Credit Suisse raised its rating for Delta and Northwest to outperform from neutral in part because of a tentative agreement between pilots, giving the green light on a merger deal the investment firm said is imminent.

 

[DeltaAVL]

"[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL,]Delta Accord Paves Way for Northwest Deal, People Say


April 10 (Bloomberg) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. and its pilots agreed on a tentative contract to clear the way for a merger with Northwest Airlines Corp. that would create the world's largest carrier, people familiar with the talks said.

The pilot accord includes higher pay and an equity stake in the combined airline, which would keep Delta's name and Atlanta headquarters, said th e people, who didn't want to be identified because the plan is still private. The tie-up may be announced next week, the people said.

The merger includes a small premium for Northwest investors, three of the people said. "
[/FONT][/FONT]
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601209&sid=aL1DrVDvgkI0&refer=transportation



Unless I'm reading that wrong, it sounds like it's gonna be a definite "yes".


edit: looks like Nick found similar information.