ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Dont have to do that at a Fedex feeder.
Caravan pilots
- Thread starter Bamaaviator
- Start date
TrustMeI'maPilot
Well-Known Member
In this climate you could be making close to 6 figures within 3 years if you pick the right regional. Several of my friends have been hired at Legacies this year after about 5 years at the regionals.
But you'd rather make a career flying a turbine 182 around that tops out at what, $50k? All because of a couple grand $ difference in pay for the first year?
But you'd rather make a career flying a turbine 182 around that tops out at what, $50k? All because of a couple grand $ difference in pay for the first year?
cezzna618
yyhhaaaarrr
I've always heard the whole "freight dogging is really hard work" argument...but...I still feel like I do considerably less physical labor then really any job requiring physical labor. I mean... you unload some boxes out of a plane on one end of your route...it's not particularly hard. Sure some runs are a bit more brutal then others, but that's part of life. The caravan is great, no regrets here so far.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
121 isn't for everyone. If you happen to live where the 208 run is, and are happy there, who can argue with being home every day?
TrustMeI'maPilot
Well-Known Member
Completely understandable, but I was responding to his argument about pay, which to me is crazy.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
The comparison wasn't to construction though. It was to airline flying, which as far as I can tell is hours of autopilot interrupted by doing some paperwork at both ends. Certainly less work than hand flying in the weather at night in an airplane with barely enough power to get out of it's way on a good day, heaven forbid you start getting some ice on it. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against freight flying, but let's be clear on two things: 1 the golden days of freight are dead and gone unless you work for UPS or FedEx proper. 2. The guy who called caravan freight "cushy" was a bit silly.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
I understand the pay side of it too. You make just enough to start to get comfortable flying 135 freight, which makes it harder and harder to leave as you are there longer. I saw it and found a way out that wasn't a paycut, but those are few and far between.
cezzna618
yyhhaaaarrr
Yeah, I understand what your saying. Point taken, I guess it comes down to what values make a job "cushy" to a particular person. Believe it or not we actually have AP's that can fly coupled ILS's ( I never use it for approaches because I am to scared of loosing my proficiency.
). Cruise...AP is great.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I'd love to fly Empire's ATR up here. They're about 40k short on reasonable pay for pic in that thing though. That's the only reason they are short pilots.
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
Heard they are getting rid of the Van and going to run the ATR to Kenai, and Hagland is taking over the Kodiak run with a 1900 on the 135 side. Sad when you can make more money in Anchorage in a piston single than ATR's captains pay cap.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I hope it's out and back. That would SUCK to fly 25 mins and then sit for like 6 hours waiting for the night cargo just to fly 25mins back. Maybe 30 mins if they launched you on the 7's instead of 33.
Bamaaviator
Well-Known Member
Yes I understand the potential gains in pay, upgrade, QOL, etc. after the first year in pay at a regional. And yes, the 1st year in pay is not worth it to me. I know lots of pilots who say this too. And besides, 121 seems like it wouldn't be my thing, especially the regionals. As I stated earlier, everybody has their preferences as to what they want to do with their flying career. Just because the herds are doing this, doesn't mean you have to do that. I for one, and this is strictly my own opinion, refuse to sell myself for less than 22k considering the amount of responsibility involved, AS WELL as the amount of time and money I will have forked over getting into this career. I have been paying for my ratings as I go. No debt. Having no debt has been a blessing, but at the same time the process has been slow going since I don't have a huge sum of money stashed up somewhere. I've spent t the last 7 years getting my private, instrument, time building, and now finally getting into commercial training. It would be ridiculous for me to continue for another 2-3 years instructing, then go to a regional making perhaps less money than I would as a CFI the 1st year. Again, some people may see this differently, but for me, I have a family that I need to have food on the table for. If I was attending a college or university flight program, or atp, and was able to get through flight training MUCH quicker, and if I was single with no kids, yea, I would probably go to the regionals. But with my circumstances it's just not worth it. The downside to doing the latter when it comes to flight training is I've heard of too many people that get their ratings and they're stuck with a lot of debt. Then they go to the regionals anyway making nothing that first year lol. I don't get it, did they not learn anything in their economics classes in college? If makes no sense financially to do that. Then some of them default on their student loans bc they aren't making enough. And then they complain about it. Did they not research the career before they decided to dive head first into it? With the Internet, there's really no excuse anymore for not knowing the truth about the pay at the regionals. There shouldn't be anymore surprises.
You ask, "so your content making around 50k tops in a caravan?" Well, yea, actually I would be content with that. It's not always about money. If you were offering to pay me well into 6 figures to do a desk job that I knew sucked and had a lot of strings attached (in other words, BS is involved), and required me to work 12 hr days, 6 days a week, sometimes 7 days a week, and overloaded me with work that I knew I could not complete on time, no, I'd walk away from the offer in a heartbeat. This is a job that my wife's uncle is doing in a corporate office and he HATES it! He's already looking for a new job and he's only been there for a not even a year. He's burned the hell out on it. Doesn't sound like it's worth the pay to me. The guy is exhausted every day.
Contrast that with regional airline pay, the low pay is not worth it to ME given the number of LIVES I would be responsible for on a daily basis. If they offered me 30-40k to start, i'd do some reconsidering, no doubt.
I know plenty of guys I've met at the airport that are very happy flying small freight, corporate, or charter aircraft. I've met several pilots that have flown king airs for many years and love it. They have no intention of going to the regionals. Many of them have been in their local flying community for years and they don't wanna leave it (unless they have to). A couple of these pilots say they used to fly for the regionals and absolutely hated it, didn't take recall, and aren't going back. They spend more time with their families. I see where they're coming from. I knew a guy at the airport where I used to live about 6 years ago when I worked at the fbo there. He was flying a Cheyenne. Absolutely loved his job, happy guy. Almost all his trips were out n backs. Told me he had no intentions of going to the regionals.
I'm not knocking on the regionals, I just don't understand why some people promote the regionals when it doesn't suit everyone. I have no desire to work for a major airline. I'm having a hard time understanding why some folks can't understand that lol
And concerning the physical aspect of being a freight pilot. I have done PLENTY of jobs that involved moderate to intense manual labor, much of it was for 12 hrs shifts. Very little rest time, short lunch breaks, etc. I even worked in a high tech factory on the night shift and had to do manual labor all night to keep a machine going. It was physical to say the least. I used to work as an order filler in a distribution center. Very physical job. Loading and unloading a caravan, is NOTHING roger roger. I can understand where your coming from bc I know that not every pilot wants to do physical work. I've seen plenty of those types lol. But I know what it means to actually WORK for a living.
You ask, "so your content making around 50k tops in a caravan?" Well, yea, actually I would be content with that. It's not always about money. If you were offering to pay me well into 6 figures to do a desk job that I knew sucked and had a lot of strings attached (in other words, BS is involved), and required me to work 12 hr days, 6 days a week, sometimes 7 days a week, and overloaded me with work that I knew I could not complete on time, no, I'd walk away from the offer in a heartbeat. This is a job that my wife's uncle is doing in a corporate office and he HATES it! He's already looking for a new job and he's only been there for a not even a year. He's burned the hell out on it. Doesn't sound like it's worth the pay to me. The guy is exhausted every day.
Contrast that with regional airline pay, the low pay is not worth it to ME given the number of LIVES I would be responsible for on a daily basis. If they offered me 30-40k to start, i'd do some reconsidering, no doubt.
I know plenty of guys I've met at the airport that are very happy flying small freight, corporate, or charter aircraft. I've met several pilots that have flown king airs for many years and love it. They have no intention of going to the regionals. Many of them have been in their local flying community for years and they don't wanna leave it (unless they have to). A couple of these pilots say they used to fly for the regionals and absolutely hated it, didn't take recall, and aren't going back. They spend more time with their families. I see where they're coming from. I knew a guy at the airport where I used to live about 6 years ago when I worked at the fbo there. He was flying a Cheyenne. Absolutely loved his job, happy guy. Almost all his trips were out n backs. Told me he had no intentions of going to the regionals.
I'm not knocking on the regionals, I just don't understand why some people promote the regionals when it doesn't suit everyone. I have no desire to work for a major airline. I'm having a hard time understanding why some folks can't understand that lol
And concerning the physical aspect of being a freight pilot. I have done PLENTY of jobs that involved moderate to intense manual labor, much of it was for 12 hrs shifts. Very little rest time, short lunch breaks, etc. I even worked in a high tech factory on the night shift and had to do manual labor all night to keep a machine going. It was physical to say the least. I used to work as an order filler in a distribution center. Very physical job. Loading and unloading a caravan, is NOTHING roger roger. I can understand where your coming from bc I know that not every pilot wants to do physical work. I've seen plenty of those types lol. But I know what it means to actually WORK for a living.
TrustMeI'maPilot
Well-Known Member
That doesn't even come close to "cushy".
z987k
Well-Known Member
I just want you to realize there is more to 135 than FedEx feeders. There's more to 135 freight to. I really would not limit yourself to Caravans because most everything else pays more with an even better QOL. If used to be Empire et al was a good gig in like 2008, now even AMF pays more(which is funny as crap) to fly airplanes that will qualify you to make a lot more money with more time off longer term. Schedules are similar. There's a good bit of ad-hoc going into Mexico that pays better to.
If you think the fedex feeder schedule is easy, I slept in my own bed every single night in January, did like 4 flights, all out and back and was paid a lot more than any freight operator pays, heck more than most any regional pic(except for the 15+ year lifers) makes. But we can't touch you without 1000 hours multi... which is, to be honest, a VERY low barrier of entry.
Nope. In fact that sounds like hell to me. I need massive chunks of time off. 6 days a week? LOL!
Bamaaviator
Well-Known Member
Right, and I'm not necessarily saying I'm limiting my horizons to just fedex feeders either. I think that it's reasonable and safe to assume that eventually at some point I would get tired and burnt out on flying a caravan especially flying the same route after awhile. I could probably hop over to a company that has multi equipment like ameriflight, get the multi time, then move on to something better in 135/91.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I guess my question would be why wait and build 2000 hours to fly a van when you can fly a beech 99 at 1200 hours for the same money and schedule?
Bamaaviator
Well-Known Member
Because I doubt I will have the time or the money left to complete my multi engine ratings/ mei when I'm an instructor building time. I was thinking of doing the multi once I have a job flying a caravan and making better money than as an instructor. Martinaire is a good way of going about that. Then I could look for multi giggs afterwards. Besides I heard rumors at my local flight school that they were going to sell the multi engine trainer in a few months possibly
djh1007
Flying Squirrel Trainee
Do whatever you can do get your MEL and possibly MEI; beg, borrow, cheat, steal, whatever it takes.
You'll severely limit your career opportunities otherwise.
I got into a the right seat of a King Air around 300 hours, instructed until 1000TT and had ~100 hours in the King Air.
Those multi-turbine hours opened the door for my current 135 job. Started out SIC in a B200, now have LR-JET and Ce500 SIC types, with a larger a/c type to come soon.
I was considering going to a Caravan Feeder last year, just waiting to hit 1200TT, but found something far better. It also helps if you're willing/able to move for a job. For a brief period, I thought 135 freight was the be all end it all at my TT. I almost interviewed, but ended up turning it down, for a 135 operator flying a Shorts. But you'll need multi time for those jobs. It's not uncommon to see 135 freight outfits hiring ~500hr FOs, and that's multi turbine time.
Good luck!
You'll severely limit your career opportunities otherwise.
I got into a the right seat of a King Air around 300 hours, instructed until 1000TT and had ~100 hours in the King Air.
Those multi-turbine hours opened the door for my current 135 job. Started out SIC in a B200, now have LR-JET and Ce500 SIC types, with a larger a/c type to come soon.
I was considering going to a Caravan Feeder last year, just waiting to hit 1200TT, but found something far better. It also helps if you're willing/able to move for a job. For a brief period, I thought 135 freight was the be all end it all at my TT. I almost interviewed, but ended up turning it down, for a 135 operator flying a Shorts. But you'll need multi time for those jobs. It's not uncommon to see 135 freight outfits hiring ~500hr FOs, and that's multi turbine time.
Good luck!
texas_pilot
Well-Known Member
It may not be important, but ALPA isn't very active in the 135 outfits I've talked to- might be why the 121 jobs pick up better rates quicker?
