Preventing fatigue call abuse

JordanD said:
Depending what fleet you're on though, I could see that racking up pretty easily. Two missed widebody trips in a year and you're getting a phone call.
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Just so that you know, they have to have an articulable basis not related to the timing or frequency of sick leave (such as you banging out then, say, hypothetically [sort of] non-revving to Honolulu and posting about it on TikTok) for the GFB inquiry, and merely exceeding the 50 hour exception won’t automatically get you tagged for a call.

TLDR If you’re sick use it and don’t worry about a GFB or QHCP verification.
 
DE727UPS said:
The phone call is just an attempt intimidate you disguised as an attempt to offer help. Just keep saying "I was unfit for duty, thank you for your concern" enough times and they will hang up. Don't go off script.
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The CPO here is going to call you for your first one for your first year, but at least for me it was a thirty second conversation reminding me to bang in well once I was, well, well, along with a “not curious, just feel better soon.” The fact that you aren’t presumed well for your next assignment is an oddity among airlines I’ve flown for.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Just so that you know, they have to have an articulable basis not related to the timing or frequency of sick leave (such as you banging out then, say, hypothetically [sort of] non-revving to Honolulu and posting about it on TikTok) for the GFB inquiry, and merely exceeding the 50 hour exception won’t automatically get you tagged for a call.

TLDR If you’re sick use it and don’t worry about a GFB or QHCP verification.
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Also pretty sure that scenario would get you more than a GFB call
 
DE727UPS said:
The phone call is just an attempt intimidate you disguised as an attempt to offer help. Just keep saying "I was unfit for duty, thank you for your concern" enough times and they will hang up. Don't go off script.
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My go to statement is “At this time I am not in a condition for safe operation, and will reach out when airworthy.”

Never had any kickback from using that.
 
DE727UPS said:
The phone call is just an attempt intimidate you disguised as an attempt to offer help. Just keep saying "I was unfit for duty, thank you for your concern" enough times and they will hang up. Don't go off script.
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I got one (long story, mostly to do with Covid scares), and you could tell the poor ACP was, well, "phoning it in". He knew that I knew that he knew that I knew that it was just a box-checking exercise. But I won't claim that it doesn't kind of work. No one likes a conversation that starts with "This is John Smith from the Chief Pilot's office..."

"Oh. Hey John. If that really IS your name...*explosive diarrhea noises*"

Edit: I forgot the amusing detail that the call came like a month after my last sick call. "Well, gosh, John, I was going through a personal crisis and really could have used your help...a month ago. Thanks for checking in anyway, though!"
 
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Autothrust Blue said:
The CPO here is going to call you for your first one for your first year, but at least for me it was a thirty second conversation reminding me to bang in well once I was, well, well, along with a “not curious, just feel better soon.” The fact that you aren’t presumed well for your next assignment is an oddity among airlines I’ve flown for.
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What sucks is, now that we’re covering trips two days out, you get a call asking if you’re gonna be well in two days:

“Uhhhh, huh, huh, I don’t know. Like, go away”(Butthead impression).

If you “play it safe” and stay out: boom, there goes 20-ish more hours on the “verification clock”.

Roll the dice and say you’re well, and if it turns out you’re not: bang, another occurrence (if you’re in “the zone”).

Not sure what the answer is, but this is kinda lame…
 
I knew a guy who once worked for a 135 that had an employee specifically hired to search for every employees name online everyday. They would search police blotters, social media or anything else that might pop up regardless of whether or not they showed up for work, it was just standard practice. The guy I knew left for greener pastures.
 
Toobdrvr said:
What sucks is, now that we’re covering trips two days out, you get a call asking if you’re gonna be well in two days:

“Uhhhh, huh, huh, I don’t know. Like, go away”(Butthead impression).

If you “play it safe” and stay out: boom, there goes 20-ish more hours on the “verification clock”.

Roll the dice and say you’re well, and if it turns out you’re not: bang, another occurrence (if you’re in “the zone”).

Not sure what the answer is, but this is kinda lame…
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I had that at Surejet. Didn’t have the sick time and was broke as hell, so as soon as I was feeling better I went back. Turns out my sinuses weren’t there yet and I got a bonus occurrence and a trip to the CP.
 
“Hi Mr Richman, this is the CPO. We see you’re out sick and was wondering if there is anything we can do?”

“Well, thank for calling. As a matter of fact, while I’m laid up of crutches, could you send someone over to scoop the cat box? It’s getting kind of stinky. Boy, can you do that? I’d really appreciate it!”

#thingsthatwouldhavebeenactuallyhelpful
 
knot4u said:
I knew a guy who once worked for a 135 that had an employee specifically hired to search for every employees name online everyday. They would search police blotters, social media or anything else that might pop up regardless of whether or not they showed up for work, it was just standard practice. The guy I knew left for greener pastures.
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Riveting tale old chap.
 
jrh said:
I'd like to unpack this a little more.

How would sick time being deducted for a fatigue call which is personal in nature (not caused by company operations) be different from a sick call for being sick?

In other words, how is using sick time for a fatigue call punitive, but sick time for a sick call is not punitive?

To me they seem the same. Both are unplanned. Both are outside the control of the company. Both relate to fitness for flight.

I honestly want to hear an opposing argument though.
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If the fatigue call is due to the baby crying all night or having to listen to the neighbors cause a scene until midnight then sure, deduct the sick bank. That’s out of the company’s control.

What I’m talking about is being on a trip and not being able to rest because of how the trips are built and having a fatigue report accepted but being blamed for not managing your rest and getting your pay deducted, which I’m hearing is happening more often now. Idk whether to chalk it up to negotiations or what.

I can only speak for brown but in my base we have trips where the report time shifts each day. Example being day one will be a 6pm show on the west coast followed by a 11hr overnight. Day 2 is a 3pm east coast time followed by another 12hr overnight. Day 3 is a 5am show with a 24hr overnight. Day 4 goes back to a 3pm show and is sometimes the last day of the trip.

I’ve done multiple informational fatigue reports on trips like this and others only to be told it “models well” and is contractual. If I call out fatigued for this I honestly don’t know if I’d have my sick bank deducted. Personally I could care less but as @DE727UPS stated we can have our sick bank paid out down to a certain amount. For a lot of people here that important to them.
 
🦈💜 said:
Interestingly, my shop used to have a pretty robust fatigue response, which was something to the effect of "Thank you for making the responsible choice. We've gone ahead and pulled the flying off your schedule; let us know when you're recovered and ready to resume."

Now it's "*sigh* Ok, we've pulled you off that trip. You have a report time in exactly 10 hours for 14+ hours of flying."
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That’s how it is here also. If you’re not rested at the end of that then bang out fatigue again. We’ve had people get calls from scheduling during their rest period after calling in fatigued, housekeeping, etc. What they want you to do and what you’re physically and mentally able to do are two different things.
 
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