Caravan pilots

[Bamaaviator]

Hello everybody. This is my first post, however I've been lurking on here for quite some time. I have a question about becoming a freight pilot for a fedex feeder. I've been looking into freight for quite some time. I think I would like this type of flying. Currently working on my commercial certificate, then CFI afterwards. I understand that fedex feeders require 2000 hrs TT to get on with them (with the exception of corporate air, last I checked, their website said 1500 hrs TT, I think). I saw somebody on here post something from a thread that started like a couple years back that you have to have previous 135 experience to get hired at a FedEx feeder, as well as a recommendation too. Is it true that they are looking for previous 135 experience? If so, do you think my chances of getting hired at a FedEx feed would be better if I went to places like martinaire, air cargo, ameriflight first? (Since their entry level requirements are 1200 TT) Or will the FedEx feeders sometimes take pilots with 2000 hours along with all the other 135.243 requirements satisfied, AND proficient with flying on instruments down to minimums? I would love to get into freight after flight instructing. I have a fetish for caravans and atr's for some strange reason lol.

Also, what is the likelihood of going from 135 freight, to 121 jet freight in the longer term? Have guys gone to places like southern, atlas, capital, FedEx, UPS, etc etc, after flying small freight planes for a few years? Or are the regionals your best shot at that?

 

[USMCmech]

Disclaimer, I flew the Caravan for Martinaire for 4 years,


There are two catergories of Freight Feeders,

FedEx feeders pay fairly well, have nicer planes (since FedEx owns the airframes), pilots do not have to help load and unload, and most of their pilots are lifers who have flown those runs for years. Per the contract that FedEx has with the company, pilots MUST have 2000TT.

UPS feeders pay much less, planes are older and less well equiped, pilots have to help load, and there is a revolveing door of pilots who get their time and move on to bigger and better jobs. The minimum flight time for most of these jobs is IFR 135 mins (1200TT, ect,)

Quite often a guy will start flying a 208 for an operator like Martinaire on a UPS run, then after a year or so get hired to fly the identical run for a FedEx feeder. I saw this happen quite a few times, litteraly the only thing about their job that changed was the paint on their airplane and their paycheck. Most of the pilots I met flying for Barron (a FedEx feeder) had previously flown for Martinaire, which is why I joked that we were their training department, then I realized it wasn't a joke.

If you want to fly freight in 208s, I would not hold out for a FedEx feeder if you have a chance to get hired at Martinaire or Ameriflight. Spend a year at a UPS feeder and get to know the guy flying the FedEx plane that mirrors your route. With that recommendation, you stand a good shot at getting hired.



Getting hired into the big cargo operators straight out of 135 freight did happen in the past, but now I wouldn't bet on it. Flying a 208 for a year, then a few years at a regional are a much more likely route to Atlas or Southern.

 

[Bamaaviator]

Thanks USMC, what is the pay at martinaire? Do you get any raises after the first year? Does the company give you the opportunity to make more money by flying more? Also, how long were the duty days (or nights)? I know the answer probably varies, but how long was a typical day on your run? This company sounds like a decent entry point from what I've heard

 

[Roger Roger]

Please aim higher than a caravan. ..unless you a) want to be a lifer on one of the FedEx routes or b) get a gig like one of the guys on here making bank flying a van in Alaska caravan time will be fun for about a month and then not only will you be bored out of your mind but you won't be doing much for your career...at least not compared to the guy getting multi turbine time at amflight or,good forbid, a regional.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I worked at Martinaire for 14 months and Baron (a Fed Ex feeder) for 2 years. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend it for anything other than temporary means to an end. I think they raised the pay at Martinaire to something like 27k, but theres nothing much after that. Maybe a 1k a year raise. The FedEx feeders pay starts better usually around 38-40k but also they don't see much upwards mobility.

You will make more as a FO at a regional airline after year 2-3 than you will at a FedEx feeder flying caravans. The only upside is if you happen to live at the outstation.

 

[Bamaaviator]

Do 135 charter companies like guys with caravan time? Or would they rather prefer guys with MULTI turbine time? I keep hearing caravan time is not good, but then again I keep hearing others say it is good time lol

 

[tiredcfi]

Do 135 charter companies like guys with caravan time? Or would they rather prefer guys with MULTI turbine time? I keep hearing caravan time is not good, but then again I keep hearing others say it is good time lol

Generally, the experience is good but the flight time isn't worth much at all.

 

[ChiefPilotISA]

Per the contract that FedEx has with the company, pilots MUST have 2000TT.

Not true.
I'd look at someone with 1500TT and some previous 135 experience. Instrument proficiency would really help too.

 

[Roger Roger]

Do 135 charter companies like guys with caravan time? Or would they rather prefer guys with MULTI turbine time? I keep hearing caravan time is not good, but then again I keep hearing others say it is good time lol

Caravan time isn't good, because the airplane is simple, slow, and easy to fly. However, a lot of caravan jobs are night single pilot IFR and that IS good time, especially if it's somewhere that has to deal with icing. So it's good and bad.

 

[Sol Rosenburg]

Hello everybody. This is my first post, however I've been lurking on here for quite some time. I have a question about becoming a freight pilot for a fedex feeder. I've been looking into freight for quite some time. I think I would like this type of flying. Currently working on my commercial certificate, then CFI afterwards. I understand that fedex feeders require 2000 hrs TT to get on with them (with the exception of corporate air, last I checked, their website said 1500 hrs TT, I think). I saw somebody on here post something from a thread that started like a couple years back that you have to have previous 135 experience to get hired at a FedEx feeder, as well as a recommendation too. Is it true that they are looking for previous 135 experience? If so, do you think my chances of getting hired at a FedEx feed would be better if I went to places like martinaire, air cargo, ameriflight first? (Since their entry level requirements are 1200 TT) Or will the FedEx feeders sometimes take pilots with 2000 hours along with all the other 135.243 requirements satisfied, AND proficient with flying on instruments down to minimums? I would love to get into freight after flight instructing. I have a fetish for caravans and atr's for some strange reason lol.

Also, what is the likelihood of going from 135 freight, to 121 jet freight in the longer term? Have guys gone to places like southern, atlas, capital, FedEx, UPS, etc etc, after flying small freight planes for a few years? Or are the regionals your best shot at that?

if you have the multi time to get on at Ameriflight I'd do that before you should focus solely on a caravan operator. They have multiple airframes and most will get you a type rating or two. If you don't have huge aspirations to move to huge equipment and want something stable at a place you want to live then Baron might be an option. Going to the 121 cargo jets isn't really going to happen without some other PIC jet time somewhere and some it being heavy time. Keep in mind many of those UPSers and FedExers as well as Atlas guys came from C5s/KCs or similar stuff in the military or had good quality 121 jet time previously. They didn't immediately come from a caravan or B1900 somewhere. You will also see many here argue that even Ameriflight is now a lesser option being you'll never see a jet there so you might as go to a regional to start with anyhow.

 

[cezzna618]

In my very limited experience, everything above is true. Not sure I would say caravan time is useless. Like the OP I wanted to fly the van since the first time I saw one, and I sort of have a list of planes I want to fly regardless of how they relate to career advancement. That being said, I also got to dip my feet in flying jets briefly (part 91 CE650 ). Jets = kinda boring to me at this pt at least, I have far more fun flying the caravan. As some one said above, if your flying freight in a 208 you are also doing single pilot night ifr which is very good time. It is also a nearly pilot proof airframe. Bottom line, if you want to try the caravan, go for it. If anything, it won't hurt your career in any way.

 

[z987k]

The caravan feeders don't even pay well. I don't know where anyone gets that notion. They all start about where AMF does, and well below landmark. Both AMF and landmark will end up with a much higher paycheck after 1 year than any FedEx feeder, even on the ATR as PIC, which for empire and mountain air cargo pays LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL crap. I really don't understand how they are able to turn a prop every day with what they pay and the qualifications it takes to sit in that seat.
Get the multi time. You'll likely never do much in aviation without it.

 

[Bamaaviator]

Lol are the pay scales for MAC and empire on APC accurate? What about ameriflight and ACC?

 

[jspeed87]

I'm also interested in flying for the FedEx Feeders. Although the salary is not bad, the schedule and benefits are what I like. You could also consider flying the C210 for FX once you get 1200tt. Also single engine turbine time could land you a Pilatus corporate job which can be very cushy.
It depends on your
lifestyle and wants, but I would be happy flying a Purple tail Caravan for a while.

 

[Bamaaviator]

Jspeed you and I have some in common. I am perfectly ok with flying a caravan for awhile or even a career if it comes down to it. I would go to the regionals, but the starting pay is just not worth the money and time I will have invested into this career. If the regionals offered to pay first year FO's 30k starting, as a MINIMUM, i would definitely go. But I have a family to feed, and bills to pay. I just couldn't accept a regional gig given the pay. True, they raise you after that and you can make some good money (or decent, I guess) once you upgrade but the initial pay cut to me is just totally not worth it. My services are worth WAY more than that to carry 50 passengers. Also, somebody else's idea of a good salary might be a low salary to another, and vice versa. I agree in that individual preferences, career goals, etc. will vary for everybody.

 

[alaskadrifter]

Jspeed you and I have some in common. I am perfectly ok with flying a caravan for awhile or even a career if it comes down to it. I would go to the regionals, but the starting pay is just not worth the money and time I will have invested into this career. If the regionals offered to pay first year FO's 30k starting, as a MINIMUM, i would definitely go. But I have a family to feed, and bills to pay. I just couldn't accept a regional gig given the pay. True, they raise you after that and you can make some good money (or decent, I guess) once you upgrade but the initial pay cut to me is just totally not worth it. My services are worth WAY more than that to carry 50 passengers. Also, somebody else's idea of a good salary might be a low salary to another, and vice versa. I agree in that individual preferences, career goals, etc. will vary for everybody.

I'm pretty sure you can make that first year at Horizon.

 

[jspeed87]

Jspeed you and I have some in common. I am perfectly ok with flying a caravan for awhile or even a career if it comes down to it. I would go to the regionals, but the starting pay is just not worth the money and time I will have invested into this career. If the regionals offered to pay first year FO's 30k starting, as a MINIMUM, i would definitely go. But I have a family to feed, and bills to pay. I just couldn't accept a regional gig given the pay. True, they raise you after that and you can make some good money (or decent, I guess) once you upgrade but the initial pay cut to me is just totally not worth it. My services are worth WAY more than that to carry 50 passengers. Also, somebody else's idea of a good salary might be a low salary to another, and vice versa. I agree in that individual preferences, career goals, etc. will vary for everybody.

You also have to consider the amount of work you put in at a Regional vs a Caravan Feeder. The Regionals will require multiple stops, and more responsibility with passengers etc. A feeder can be very cushy and will usually have weekends off.

 

[Bamaaviator]

Right. And to expand on that, your flying a jet with many complex systems like pressurization, hydraulic, fuel, electrical, advanced automation and avionics systems while operating in the flight levels going at over 300 knots and flying into some of the busiest airspaces in the world. And at the same time trying to deviate around weather, avoiding terrain, etc. and carrying 30-50 bodies behind you. It blows my mind of how regional carriers pay their FO's as low as they do. This should NOT be happening, but it is what is, and I understand I can't really change it. I know there are pro's to going to a regional and I've heard it's not as bad as some ppl make it out to be, but selling myself for 22k to fly a jet and be tasked with that much responsibility and not get anyone killed is unacceptable. For others it may be acceptable. I just wish this would change in the industry eventually. Not even doctors or nurses are responsible for the amount of lives pilots are on a daily basis.

 

[JeppUpdater]

Let me preface this by saying I'm uh...pretty in tune with what's going on at MRA.

We've only got a couple of routes open. Dallas (standby), Guymon, and either Portland, OR or Albany, GA. All the routes aside from Guymon pay 30k. Goes up annually of course, benefits, sign on bonus, etc. Typical stuff.

The resumes I see vary from right at 135 mins to guys with 20k hours who want to live in a particular city. There's primarily two groups of pilots - a relatively new group with 6 months to 2 years at the company who are building time, and a group with 10+ years who are happy and going nowhere.

Most PRIAs I do are for FedEx Feeders, charter ops (turboprop and jet), or regionals. There are exceptions. Some to national airlines. Some corporate. Just did a NetJets recently. I went from Caravan to Metro at Landmark. A lot of guys knock the 'van when they've never flown it. I've not seen it really hold anyone back. And I'd say generally we have pretty happy pilots right now.

I spoke with one of the CPs at Empire today and they're very short on guys according to him, both Caravan and ATR. Options are out there pretty much regardless of what you want to fly or where you want to go. It really is a pilot's market right now. Get off JC and throw out some apps - you'll get plenty of bites.

 

[Roger Roger]

You also have to consider the amount of work you put in at a Regional vs a Caravan Feeder. The Regionals will require multiple stops, and more responsibility with passengers etc. A feeder can be very cushy and will usually have weekends off.

Clearly you've never worked 14 hour days loading and unloading freight from a caravan if you think that freightdogging is cushy.