Briefing the Crew/Cockpit discussions, post-accident...

sorrygottarunway

Well-Known Member
Hey Folks...

I've been mulling everything over in my mind almost constantly for the past 36 hours. I return to Newark tomorrow, and one thing I can't really wrap my mind around is how to brief the crew tomorrow, I mean, other than the standard things I usually say. I'm guessing words of encouragement, but its going to probably be a very quiet cockpit tomorrow.

Anybody who's gone through this before, could you share your thoughts on your return to work post-accident?

-B
 
Hey Folks...

I've been mulling everything over in my mind almost constantly for the past 36 hours. I return to Newark tomorrow, and one thing I can't really wrap my mind around is how to brief the crew tomorrow, I mean, other than the standard things I usually say. I'm guessing words of encouragement, but its going to probably be a very quiet cockpit tomorrow.

Anybody who's gone through this before, could you share your thoughts on your return to work post-accident?

-B

You just do your job. I know it sounds cold, but that's the way it is; not a heck of alot else you can do. If you want to say some condolences, etc for your friends, there's nothing wrong with that; but you can't let it get in the way of the mission, your mind and that of your crew's needs to be focused. No need to let it make anything uncomfortable, just keep it natural.
 
Chat with them a bit beforehand, get an idea of how they're doing. If anyone seems unfit to fly, make sure they don't. I know that sounds awful, but really if someone shows up to work not ready to be there yet, it's not good for anyone. A very good friend of mine from Flagship froze up on approach back to BNA one day not too long after his divorce. He was not ready to be back to work yet, his F/O had to do everything on that approach. He went to the CP's office immediately afterwards and took some time off to deal with things. When he got himself back together (and he did) he came back to work and everything was fine.

As for the brief for the specific flight, just do it normal, just like always. Find some comfort in the "routine" of things and just do your job.
 
You are the leader of your crew and you will set the tone of how the trip goes. Like you said, meet up early and definetly address the situation as is but also let it be known that you are still a professional crew and have to operate that way. It is very tough to get back in the seat after a tragedy such as this. Your crew will be looking to you for leadership.
 
I haven't had the pleasure of working with you yet, or even meeting you (!) but I am already impressed with your concern for your crew and coworkers during this difficult time. Hope to meet & work with you sometime in the near future. Take it easy and do your best. As others here have said, your fellow crewmembers will follow your lead.
 
Make sure you brief the fa's, ESP. On weather issues, icing and how you will of deal with it. Make sure you establish open lines of communication, and remind them you have done it 1000's of time before and that this time will be no different. Do a good walk around yourself, take a deep breath and do your job. Don't rush anything, and be open to any questions. You will get lots of comments from ramp/gate/airline personel. Be ready to show that you are touched that they care, but don't let it get to you. Many people will clearly want to say something but be uncertain as to how, so be open, present a warm, professional image. Remember if pax ask what happened, tell them it was very rare and tragic. We have the best people from multiple agencies working on it, and have taken additional safety measures untill the exact cause known, but untill then we can't speculate. It also would not be respectfull to jump to conclusions without the proper information. Also, many will return to work just to keep busy, or are looking for some one who they can talk to. If you experience this get them intouch with company personal, or the alps people here to help. Working to cope can lead to issues.


I made sure to brief everybody else on how I planned to prevent a similar incident. Told them my minimum speed in icing was going to be 190kts, no flaps till on an active approach segment. Be carefull of events causing large pitch changes like adding flaps. No autopilot when making configuration changes. All things that are normal to a NE winter pilot, but the rest of your crew might not know- ESP the Fa's. Letting them know what my plans were seemed to reassure them more than saying I'm sorry we lost them, are you ok?
 
I haven't been thru it in terms of having a fatal accident while I was at this airline, but I think I'd factor in a chat about emotional distractions. I've flown distracted before and I was absolutely dangerous to the point where I almost pulled myself off a trip because I kept making mistakes because I couldn't stay on my "A-Game". And once you're off your A-Game, you're a hazard.

MQAAORD - How did you guys handle it after the Roselawn accident?
 
The hardest part for me was seeing the sympathy in everybodies eyes. When I just wanted to do my job, it was harder with everybody looking at my crew with eyes that said," we know you just lost family" we all respond differntly. This is far from the first time I have lost people I know to aviation. For me, finding out what happened, and making sure changes are made so it never happens again is how I move on.
 
Have your FAs told you how the pax have been with them these last 2 days? That has to be extremely hard for them to deal with.

It sounds like you've got a good handle on things and are handling your duties very well for both your pax and crew.
 
Most behaved well and offered their sympathy. Others seem to think talking crash on a plane invites bad luck. All of the FA's have been very professional. I have been proud to have them in the back working.
 
You are the leader of your crew and you will set the tone of how the trip goes. Your crew will be looking to you for leadership.

t-cart pretty much nailed it here for you captains. We started back flying into LGA when the World Trade center was still a smoking hole and we were going to fly by it. Talk to the FAs in particular and be sure they understand what to expect, that everything is going to be OK and you are concerned about whatever THEY are concerned about.

Be the captain...be communicative...and listen.
 
MQAAORD - How did you guys handle it after the Roselawn accident?

I started with Simmons several months after 4184, so I wasn't involved in the immediate aftermath. As the next winter season approached though, I did notice a fair amount of skittishness about icing, guys just talking a LOT about it and still talking about the crash.

I was flying with AA immediately after 9/11 though, and following those fatalities the mood was incredibly somber. I've never heard crew lounges so silent & muted as I did in the weeks between 9/11 and getting furloughed the first time. Little mention was made of the crashes themselves, and the crew brief pretty much consisted of security measures and just doing our jobs. We didn't talk much about the crashes. At all. We just wanted to get everyone where they were going safely.
 
I started with Simmons several months after 4184, so I wasn't involved in the immediate aftermath. As the next winter season approached though, I did notice a fair amount of skittishness about icing, guys just talking a LOT about it and still talking about the crash.

I was flying with AA immediately after 9/11 though, and following those fatalities the mood was incredibly somber. I've never heard crew lounges so silent & muted as I did in the weeks between 9/11 and getting furloughed the first time. Little mention was made of the crashes themselves, and the crew brief pretty much consisted of security measures and just doing our jobs. We didn't talk much about the crashes. At all. We just wanted to get everyone where they were going safely.


Amber...I found the silence of the crew room yesterday almost surreal, so I can relate. I thought it would be more emotional, but was wrong.
 
I haven't been thru it in terms of having a fatal accident while I was at this airline, but I think I'd factor in a chat about emotional distractions. I've flown distracted before and I was absolutely dangerous to the point where I almost pulled myself off a trip because I kept making mistakes because I couldn't stay on my "A-Game". And once you're off your A-Game, you're a hazard.

MQAAORD - How did you guys handle it after the Roselawn accident?

True that. BL is, you just have to press on and do the best you can to get the job done, the pax are depending on that. If you're not good to go, nothing else will be safe to be. Kind of similar, back in my A-10 days I personally witnessed a midair of two of our squadrons jets while out on the range. Both pilots bailed out, but one slid out of his parachute harness as the chute inflated, and fell over 10,000' to his death. Seeing that was one of the most shocking things I witnessed in aviation, the only worse thing being on the ground in Iraq. We had a couple days downtime, but since our unit was preparing to deploy, we had to get back into the saddle quick. Sucks, but we concurrently had to handle the deceased pilot's affairs, while resuming getting geared up. Wasn't easy by any means; and while each pilot handled it differently inside, we all got back to business quick. It's different, I know, civil flying vs military in terms of mission necessity and the need to push things for that purpose, but the grief experienced and the method to deal with it are the same, IMO.

As Doug mentioned, at one time, I could count the number of dead guys I knew in aviation personally on one hand. Now its about 3.5 hands and getting worse.

And it's only going to continue to do so.
 
I'll second the other guys. Just be professional. Everyone on the plane wants to just do their job.

After AS261 we had a lot of F/As who were kind of skittish the first month or so after it happened. They wanted to work but were understandably nervous. YOU have to provide the calm, professional demeanor that will impart your confidence in your skills and your airplane. That goes a LONG way in helping them relax and function.

Just remember during this critical period if ANYTHING out of the ordinary happens, it then becomes incumbent upon you, as Captain, to make sure the F/As are fully debriefed about what happened. I witnessed and incident shortly after AS261 that impressed upon me how NOT to proceed. I won't put the detail up here, but needless to say you have to be sensitive to the fact that some of your F/As psyches are going to be fragile for a while.
 
If you're not good to go, nothing else will be safe to be.


There's no shame realizing your day to fly in not today. If you're head's not in it, don't fly.

While saddening, it's our jobs as professionals to fly.

Like MikeD, Doug, and many others I have lost more friends to aviation than I care to think about.

When it interferes with flying I don't go.

I have a standing reclama on sitting alert sorties with a 25 person crew because of Yukla 27.

TC
 
DO NOT forget that airline pilots are 100% self-certifying as to fitness for flight. That means emotionally as well as physically.

If you're not ready to get back on that horse, don't do it. You owe it to yourself, your crew and your passengers to be 100% ready to fly.
 
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