centralhome
Well-Known Member
Typically in the pattern you get the gear down midfield on the downwind. For this landing, don't you keep the gear up until you have the field made(somewhere between base and final)?
Thanks
Thanks
180Degree Power Off Accuracy Landing question
- Thread starter centralhome
- Start date
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
I always did this as a normal approach (normal configuration) and then did the failure into the maneuver. But, hey, thats me.
I would say it is aircraft dependent. When I did them in the Piper Arrow I would put the gear down on base and do a short final clear to land gear down 3 green (position lights) check. When I fly in the Cutlas RG (basically a Cessna 172 with retractable gear) I have them down midfield like any normal approach because this aircraft actually glides.
tgrayson
New Member
You're asking for a gear up by waiting so late. I flew a mock checkride with a guy who just dove for the runway after chopping power, and didn't drop the gear until in the landing flare. It was an exhilarating ride.
The Airplane Flying Handbook says that the power off 180 is an extension of the principles in the power off 90, and in that maneuver it says "The before landing checklist should be completed on the downwind leg, including extension of the landing gear if the airplane is equipped with retractable gear."
esa17
Well-Known Member
The FAA got on to me for teaching "leave the gear up until the field is made." They want the gear down the same place every time so that your student is in the habit of doing things a certain way which (according to them) means they are less likely to gear up a plane. I both agree and disagree.
That is how I was taught and frankly this is for emergency practice. No offense to anyone here but I could care less if I am alive and the bottom of the plane is scratched up if I have to I will leave the gear up to extend my glide right until flare and oh well if it gets a little banged up. (in an actual emergency of course leaving it up in a practice emergency to flare is just silly) But yes we were taught as long as you do it the same time everytime (for us on base with the Arrow during power off 180s) then you were less likely to land gear up. For all other normal procedures we did gear when we did the landing checklist usually early on downwind or just before entering downwind.
centralhome
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies. We will be getting it down as we normally do.
esa17
Well-Known Member
If you've ever had something like this happen you learn one lesson really quickly in the first few seconds: If something has gone wrong the plane belongs to the insurance company. You're ONLY job is to walk away when everything is said and done.
TGatch
Well-Known Member
I'd agree with them as well. Why not extend them until it's made? Reduced drag? I say it's no factor if you're flying your pattern close enough. I did them in the arrow as well and that thing dropped. We always had gear down before pulling power though.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Depends on what you're in, the 207 needs immediate action if you lose a motor, and power off 180s aren't really that different. Basically, if you're too low on base and your check airman decides to pull it you're hosed because you'll never make the field with any flap configuration other than 10degrees or less, unfortunately, to fly smoothely, and avoid dumping it over, you have a little less agressive on final, which makes it a fun balancing act.
On a checkride (e.g. empty) you'll get a little bit of a pause (about 3-7 seconds) before you hit Vglide from 110kts and have to start down, but at max gross the thing loses airspeed incredibly fast (I mean really really fast). Hell, on a bored day with a full load last summer, I began calculating glide ratios at idle for 1000' with a gps, and the best I could get, calm days everything nice was 4.5 or so to one. The average was around 4:1. Think space shuttle.
Sounds like fun you should throw a brick out of the plane pull the engine and have a race!
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Actually it is not an emergency maneuver. The power off 180 is a performance maneuver. It is all about estimating glide and accurately hitting your spot on the runway.
AFH said:
Although the skills obtained from power-off 180's will help with an emergency, the maneuver itself is not for emergencies and should not be performed in such a manner. The maneuver is to further test the skills and understanding for a commercial pilot.
I am sorry I should have been more specific here I was not arguing that it is an emergency in the "PTS." What I am saying is that it is important for the commercial student to realize that this maneuvers practical purpose is for use in an engine failure. When the maneuver was first brought to use was back in the early flying days called the "180 degree accuracy approach" and was trained heavily as they experienced many engine failures.
It is also important to know that engine failures account for very few of the total aviation accidents. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't understand what that maneuver will practically do for you in the real world.
Oh and the point of this was that it shouldn't be performed as a normal landing when you practice it at first and of course when you do it with the FAA do it to PTS. However you are giving them a sign off for a commercial pilots practical test and they are on your ticket, you as the CFI should give them a chance to practice this as an emergency and learning to fully utilize their aircrafts energy. Your student will learn how to "save" a bad glide best if they can really play with what the aircraft can do. This includes leaving the gear up till a predetermined minimum gear extension altitude (instructor does this), using flaps to boost distance when in the flare for a few extra feet or conversely high up to regain some lift that might put them short. Really give them a chance to experience it but do it at an uncontrolled and quiet field. This way you minimize the chance for crazy distractions. In which case any distraction on this should call for an immediate go around you don't want to land gear up training!
...Now you're talking! Add to that......how to fly more than 30 degrees bank if need be, and slip.....again, if need be. If things can be accomplished with smooth, less than 30 degrees bank and no other "corrective actions" taken, great....go with that! Thats best case scenario. If not though, then that's what you're seeing/learning with checking out what the aircraft can do (within reason, of course) and building the students confidence level to boot.....seeing that the plane won't just fall out of the sky if positively controlled at all times. Fully agree!
OMG Write this date down MikeD agrees with Shdw! lol I told you I always thought you should be "able" to do these so the student can understand what the plane can really do. The keeping it to 30 degrees is just for the "usual" days and times because normally you don't need to exceed that and really there usually isn't a point to it.
I just also believe you should be able to demo this maneuver with normal banking with more emphasis on the glide. But knowing what you can do if it goes wrong is always good.
OMG Write this date down MikeD agrees with Shdw! lol I told you I always thought you should be "able" to do these so the student can understand what the plane can really do. The keeping it to 30 degrees is just for the "usual" days and times because normally you don't need to exceed that and really there usually isn't a point to it.
lol.....history being made here!
