I keep hearing paycut, paycut, paycut, but???

yes i will lump into one category....you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years....again, you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years. not everyone can, but it's not impossible...even at ATL TRACON. I've got a friend that checked out in SoCal TRACON in two years....he makes over 100K a year now...that's with going to the FAA Academy. A lot of it has to do with how much time you are getting on position and how much time you are alloted for each position...

I know you think ATL Tracon is the busiest facility in the u.s. or hardest or what not never said it was...but every other facility in the u.s. will try to claim the same thing really??. each facility uses diferent numbers to say...well...we do the most planes per day....another one...well we do the most VFR a/c per day...well we have the most complex airpsace....you can spin it however you wantso cause you work the most vfr's you're the busiest...I don't get the correlation. yes ATL Airport does the most operations in the U.S out of any control tower, you have four parallel runways, or five, you also have one of the most delays, if not the most delays out of any airport in the country. Get your facts straight sport ATL is 18th worst, not even close to being as bad as you wanted to make it out to be. http://www.avoiddelays.com/worst-offenders/most-delayed-arrival-airports.asp

Throw the BS flag about a new hire getting checked out in 8 months at a level 12 tower never said that's why I said BS...it happened...it will happen again...he makes 100K a year. it could also take a new hire a lot longer to check out in a level 12 tower and other new hires will also wash out...it has happened...it will continue to happen. for you to tell someone that they can't make 100K NEVER said it couldn't happen, but it is so rare and you are blowing smoke up the majority of the folks who will not rears in three years is asinine, because they can...it depends on where you go and if you have what it takes to do the job wait didn't you say you could get checked out ANYWHERE in three years..not it depends, etc?. do not tell me to lump everyone in one mold when you just did telling people they can't make 100K in 3 years.

The train a monkey to do this job is an expression...if you read it literally you are right, it is asinine...if you have a personality, you will see what I wrote for what it is....

not tony robbins either...but not miserable like you perceive to be...most of your posts fill this forum with all the negativitey about this job....and then you bash someone for showing the positive things of the job and encouraging people...I didn't come out attacking you, I just presented a true account of what is possible in the faa.

I'm not in management...I also don't have the hate management mindset like you seem to have. it takes two to tango....there were faults on both sides...both natca and the faa...if you can't see that you are naive.

Atl tracon works more planes in 3 hours than a lot of facilities...the ENTIRE TRACON...not an individual controller there. you don't work the entire tracon by yourself...the TRACON owns probably 500 times the airspace of a class B tower....of course the tracon will work more planes...a monkey could figure that out. you can't compare the complexity of a tracon to a tower or the traffic...it's two different things.

your post ranting about what I said looks ignorant and shows how miserable you are to tell everyone who reads these post that ANYONE can get checked out in three years IS ignorant. i'm sorry you feel so bad...i like my job...if i was miserable like you perceive to be, i would not be controlling planes, i don't care how much they paid me....

i'm giving these controllers the positive side of things...you give them the negative...yes...there are both positives and negatives of the job, well obviously not for you...they are just all negative from what you say.

Love the job, hate the IWR's, those that enacted them and I would love to know how NATCA did anything but fight for yours and my rights this entire time. The Union was railroaded and if you can't see that then I'm sorry.

BTW spell checking makes you look less ...ignor...ah nvm
 
He's right ANYONE can check out in ANY facility in three years...BTW good luck in that. Because he knows EVERYONE and has worked in EVERY facility. Again ignorant to lump every facility into your sunshine and buttercup theory. ...............

Welcome back buddy.... welcome back. :D
 
He's right ANYONE can check out in ANY facility in three years...BTW good luck in that. Cause he's knows EVERYONE and has worked in EVERY facility. Again ignorant to lump every facility into your sunshine and buttercup theory. I'll let every trainee that has been at A80 for over three years know that they should have already checked out.

BTW...busiest airport in the WORLD averaging 144 landings an hour sometimes more, 4th or 5th busiest approach control in the WORLD with some of the most congested satellite airspace in the WORLD. Spin that.

Must be the 6 day weeks 10 hour days....32 week in a row of mandatory OT, 99 out of a possible 112 weeks of mandatory OT.

Don't misquote me. I didn't say everyone one could check out in 3 years...i said it is possible...and it is...it is possible to check out at A80 in 3 years...i guarantee people have done it....i also said it is possible to wash out too...i said it is possible to take longer than three years....i was just answering the guys questions....but you just want to focus on bashing like you always do and misquote me.

YES, IT IS POSSIBLE TO CHECK OUT IN ANY FACILITY IN THREE YEARS....you can't disagree with that. I would be willing to bet that there has been a new faa employee check out under three years at every faa facility...

you just seem like an angry person...angry at life...i'm not saying everyone will check out in three years....just that it is possible....

read before you rant.
 
yes i will lump into one category....you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years....again, you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years. not everyone can, but it's not impossible...even at ATL TRACON. I've got a friend that checked out in SoCal TRACON in two years....he makes over 100K a year now...that's with going to the FAA Academy. A lot of it has to do with how much time you are getting on position and how much time you are alloted for each position...

I know you think ATL Tracon is the busiest facility in the u.s. or hardest or what not never said it was...but every other facility in the u.s. will try to claim the same thing really??. each facility uses diferent numbers to say...well...we do the most planes per day....another one...well we do the most VFR a/c per day...well we have the most complex airpsace....you can spin it however you wantso cause you work the most vfr's you're the busiest...I don't get the correlation. You are taking one of the many examples I gave and bashing it....my friend...a new hire with no tracon experience, gets checked out a SoCal TRACON in 2 years...a TRACON busier than A80...the busiest in the World. So...now...some people he checked in with washed out...some are still training...but...it took him two years....and guess what? He is making over 100K a year! How long did it take for you to check out at A80? Over three years? yes ATL Airport does the most operations in the U.S out of any control tower, you have four parallel runways, or five, you also have one of the most delays, if not the most delays out of any airport in the country. Get your facts straight sport ATL is 18th worst, not even close to being as bad as you wanted to make it out to be. http://www.avoiddelays.com/worst-off...l-airports.asp Actually you just proved my point...I said ATL airport has one of the most delays out of any airport, if not the most....There are over 5,000 airport in the U.S. that are worth calling an airport. ATL is the 18th as you say...I would classify that as I said earlier..."one of the most delays"...pretty close to being as bad as I said....ATL is 18th out of 5,000....that's pretty bad.

Throw the BS flag about a new hire getting checked out in 8 months at a level 12 tower never said that's why I said BS that doesn't make sense...it happened...it will happen again...he makes 100K a year. it could also take a new hire a lot longer to check out in a level 12 tower and other new hires will also wash out...it has happened...it will continue to happen. for you to tell someone that they can't make 100K NEVER said it couldn't happen, but it is so rare and you are blowing smoke up the majority of the folks who will not rears You didn't exactly quite say it was even possible. It's really not that rare...you just have to get assigned to a level 12 facility like I stated in my first post. in three years is asinine, because they can...it depends on where you go and if you have what it takes to do the job wait didn't you say you could get checked out ANYWHERE in three years..not it depends, etc? I was relating the depends on where you go to if you make it to a level 12 facility...because that is the only way...like i said in my first post that you could make 100K after checking out...and yes...you can check out in a level 12 facility in three years. . do not tell me to lump everyone in one mold when you just did telling people they can't make 100K in 3 years.

your post ranting about what I said looks ignorant and shows how miserable you are to tell everyone who reads these post that ANYONE can get checked out in three years IS ignorant. I didn't say everyone...i said anyone....any one person can do it...it's been done before, and it will be done again...how long did it take you to check out at A80?...just curious...maybe that's why you have been so offended by my first post?!?i'm sorry you feel so bad...i like my job...if i was miserable like you perceive to be, i would not be controlling planes, i don't care how much they paid me....

i'm giving these controllers the positive side of things...you give them the negative...yes...there are both positives and negatives of the job, well obviously not for you...they are just all negative from what you say.
 
While I will never question someone who wants to voice their own opinion, I would kindly ask that you not piss off CJ...

Not because he is right or wrong, but because I think every one on here owes him some respect...like him or not...just for the simple fact that he is probably one of the most "popular" members on here--in terms of providing information and his prospective on the ATC world and taking his time to answer messages when ever he can...

I think most on here would agree that he has been a big help to those in the process
 
While I will never question someone who wants to voice their own opinion, I would kindly ask that you not piss off CJ...

Not because he is right or wrong, but because I think every one on here owes him some respect...like him or not...just for the simple fact that he is probably one of the most "popular" members on here--in terms of providing information and his prospective on the ATC world and taking his time to answer messages when ever he can...

I think most on here would agree that he has been a big help to those in the process

at least lawngnome can share his opinion sans the anger. he's actually HELPFUL. CJ sounds like he should have retired years ago. for some people nothing is ever enough.
 
at least lawngnome can share his opinion sans the anger. he's actually HELPFUL. CJ sounds like he should have retired years ago. for some people nothing is ever enough.

I agree with that, and I am not saying that CJ or LawnGnome is right or wrong in this issue....

Call him pissed off or grumpy, I'll take CJ's advice over someone else any day, just for the simple fact that he has the experience
 
I think ATL TRACON pisses himself off....Just about anything anybody says pisses him off so its a lose lose situation either way. He went on a rant for no reason....then lowering himself to bashing someone for not spell checking....that's classic....you better watch out in your post too for the grammar...looks like he's on a war path. There was no reason to get an attitude with what I posted just because I am not bashing my employer...You can't argue with what I stated to begin with. You can check out in any FAA facility in three years...even as a new hire...not everyone can or will...some will wash out like I stated, but it has been done...and will continue to be done....

Take what he says with a grain of salt because 90% of his posts come with negativitey about the job. If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said, there would be no way I would apply to work with the FAA.

Maybe where he works it's miserable...but that certainly doesn't reflect the FAA as a whole and you need to be aware of that, even if he doesn't like it.

I'm sure he provides valuable information as well, but I'm not going to give someone respect that can't respect the opinion of others without bashing them. Feel free to read over all my posts...I would say 90% of them will probably benefit you...and none of them comes out of no where and bashes someone just because their opinion differs.


:tmyk:
 
I think ATL TRACON pisses himself off....Just about anything anybody says pisses him off so its a lose lose situation either way. He went on a rant for no reason He went on a rant because you've just gone "full retard. Never go full retard". What you're stating about the job is a naiive point of view. You can check out at ANY facility in three years? Puleeese. BTW SoCal may handle more traffic but they're also have a lot more space to do it in, considering, you know that they have half of California to control. Compare that to A80's airspace. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.....then lowering himself to bashing someone for not spell checking....that's classic....you better watch out in your post too for the grammar...looks like he's on a war path. There was no reason to get an attitude with what I posted just because I am not bashing my employer...You can't argue with what I stated to begin with. You can check out in any FAA facility in three years...even as a new hire...not everyone can or will Now you're just contradicting yourself you're saying that you can check out in ANY facility in three years, but not really cause some people can't...I doubt that anyone prolongs their training considering being a CPC you make more. Oh and over 100K? That's with locality, considering California is one of the most expensive places to live, take a look at his base pay and tell me he's making over 100K...some will wash out like I stated, but it has been done...and will continue to be done....

Take what he says with a grain of salt because 90% of his posts come with negativitey about the job And negativity makes them less true?. If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said, there would be no way I would apply to work with the FAA Then get the hell out, it's about the love of the job in spite of what's going on politically within the facilities.

Maybe where he works it's miserable...but that certainly doesn't reflect the FAA as a whole and you need to be aware of that, even if he doesn't like it You're right there's the good and the bad managers, but the bad far exceed the good. You'd think they'd need to know something about the airspace before they give someone a check ride or try to go on position with a new trainee, considering they are supposed to be proficient still. Or how about showing someone who was sick AWOL, or sending someone home (using his annual leave) to change his golf socks for dress socks, or sending yet another controller home because her capris had pockets on them, I can go on all day with stories from many different facilities, so keep your naiive BS about the FAA coming.

I'm sure he provides valuable information as well, but I'm not going to give someone respect that can't respect the opinion of others without bashing them He's just telling you how it is, don't like it tough. He didn't disrespect your opinion TRACON was stating that you have a very simplistic view of what actually goes on during training or within the facility. Feel free to read over all my posts...I would say 90% of them will probably benefit you All your posts, at least on this thread, don't give any semebelance of helpful information what so ever. Telling people you can check out in ANY facility in three years is not helpful, it's "full retard"...and none of them comes out of no where and bashes someone just because their opinion differs Check your above posts and tell me that.

BTW, can anyone tell that I've seen "Tropic Thunder"? Lol :panic:

00123fc5bdb70a135b1e0d.jpg
 
id really like to post my opinion on this but i dont want some cry baby nubees running to the moderatiors to have me banned from the site again because the truth hurts some times so all ill say is ,


what CJ says "DITTO"
 
I think ATL TRACON pisses himself off....Just about anything anybody says pisses him off so its a lose lose situation either way. He went on a rant for no reason He went on a rant because you've just gone "full retard. Never go full retard". What you're stating about the job is a naiive point of view. You can check out at ANY facility in three years? Puleeese. BTW SoCal may handle more traffic but they're also have a lot more space to do it in, considering, you know that they have half of California to control. Compare that to A80's airspace. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it. Where did you come from? So...your definition of a "full retard" is stating that you can make 100K in three years and you can also check out in any FAA facility in three years? It's true...sorry if you think that is retarded...that's a fact. What is naiive about my point of view? It's the truth...call a few facilities...ask ATL TRACON to call his QA department and ask them what is the quickest a new hire has checked out here. You not believing that you can check out in three years is naiive. Like I stated in my last post or two about specific facilities....people will spin it one way or the other to make their facility look like the busiest...most complex...this and that...I'm not knocking A80, or ATL, or whatever...they are busy facilities, I'm sure very tough as well...every facility presents their own unique challenges that make them tough...ATL TRACON is the one bashing on other peoples facilities....then lowering himself to bashing someone for not spell checking....that's classic....you better watch out in your post too for the grammar...looks like he's on a war path. There was no reason to get an attitude with what I posted just because I am not bashing my employer...You can't argue with what I stated to begin with. You can check out in any FAA facility in three years...even as a new hire...not everyone can or will Now you're just contradicting yourself you're saying that you can check out in ANY facility in three years, but not really cause some people can't...I doubt that anyone prolongs their training considering being a CPC you make more. Oh and over 100K? That's with locality, considering California is one of the most expensive places to live, take a look at his base pay and tell me he's making over 100K Some people can't...I know...read my first post...that's what I said...some people will wash out...some will take longer...I said that in my first post...but it is possible to check out in 3 years and make 100K in three years...I answered that guys question truthfully....and ATL TRACON wants to bash...and now you do...that is the truth...Yes that is with locality...I never said it wasn't...if you look an FAA Earnings and Leave Statement at the salary portion...it includes locality. By the way...locality has nothing to do with cost of living. They don't award SoCal a high locality because it is an expensive place to live......some will wash out like I stated, but it has been done...and will continue to be done....

Take what he says with a grain of salt because 90% of his posts come with negativitey about the job And negativity makes them less true?. It doesn't make them less true...just heavily bias towards the negative parts of the job. If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said, there would be no way I would apply to work with the FAA Then get the hell out, it's about the love of the job in spite of what's going on politically within the facilities. Read what you are responding to...I said "If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said." First, you can't get out of the FAA if you aren't in...Second...I work for the Department of Transportation already...3rd...I don't believe everything he says. I love the job...that's probably the only thing I could agree on with ATL TRACON...but from his posts...it doesn't seem he has much love for it.

Maybe where he works it's miserable...but that certainly doesn't reflect the FAA as a whole and you need to be aware of that, even if he doesn't like it You're right there's the good and the bad managers, but the bad far exceed the good. Are you in the FAA? Maybe at certain places the bad exceed the good...I would say the good managers far exceed the bad, just my opinion and you are free to have yours...You'd think they'd need to know something about the airspace before they give someone a check ride or try to go on position with a new trainee, considering they are supposed to be proficient still. Or how about showing someone who was sick AWOL, or sending someone home (using his annual leave) to change his golf socks for dress socks, or sending yet another controller home because her capris had pockets on them, I can go on all day with stories from many different facilities, so keep your naiive BS about the FAA coming. Again...are you in the FAA? There are places that are bad...there are bad managers...you are like CNN only reporting negative crap...there is plenty good to go around as well....you just thinking everything sucks is naiive...are you sure this isn't ATL TRACON? you must hang around him way to much.

I'm sure he provides valuable information as well, but I'm not going to give someone respect that can't respect the opinion of others without bashing them He's just telling you how it is, don't like it tough. He didn't disrespect your opinion TRACON was stating that you have a very simplistic view of what actually goes on during training or within the facility. Calling me ignorant is disrespecting my opinion...I never came out and dimed him out for being a hater until he called me out. Feel free to read over all my posts...I would say 90% of them will probably benefit you All your posts, at least on this thread, don't give any semebelance of helpful information what so ever. Telling people you can check out in ANY facility in three years is not helpful, it's "full retard"...I'll say it again, you can check out in any faa facility in three years...it has happened, and will continue to happen. Not everyone will like I have stated before...some will take longer, some will wash out...but it is possible...just answering the guys question. Until you have some factual data that supports that otherwise don't say it can't happen. and none of them comes out of no where and bashes someone just because their opinion differs Check your above posts and tell me that. I did...that above post didn't come out of no where...it came after I got bashed for providing the truth.

quit hating, I'm done, this has already gone way farther than it should have...prove me otherwise, you won't be able to...


:yeahthat:
 
Ladies and Gentleman,

I know I am opening myself up to get shot from both sides here. As you can see from my signature, I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE FAA YET! However, I do have a couple to things I would like to said, and I am making my own point I am not taking sides.

First, it is possible, however unlikely, to be sided off at any FAA facility in under three (3) years. [Please note that a 1:1,000,000 chance is still a possibility, but an improbability] I am sure LG knows/has heard of someone getting checked out at a level 12 tower and SCT in under three years. However, call it negatively or practicality, ATLTRACON, is simply stating what we all should understand, if you are at a level 12(+) do not expect to be checked out in 3 years, but if you put your nose to the grindstone (Figurative only, please) you will make it through in a reasonible time frame.

I doubt anyone really cares what they are making without locality when they cash their paycheck. [If you do care, please report immediately to NATCA so you can lobby for the entire FAA to get a pay raise] I will be making around 40k to start when I get to Stockton Tower, when I complete OKC, yes that is within the Bay Area locality, yes that is like 32% locality, I know that the base pay is only in the low to mid 30,000s. But guess what, as long as I am making a reasonable amount of money and I love pushing tin like I think I will, I'm a happy camper.

Last point I want to make. ATC is not all rainbows and unicorn farts, nor is it all asisine management vs the "Our lowily hero, the Controller". I am sure that there are some really asisine managers out there that the people that work under them want do stuff so horrible I will not even consider typing it here. But I am also sure that there are the managers that you would go deep sea fishing with for two days because they are just that cool. In the end, all I can say about managers is they got there some how, love them or hate them, they are you boss. [Please note, I just walked out on a manager of a car dealership because he wouldn't provide a safety net if I didn't make enough money in this awful economy, but I would have stayed if he had treated me, and the rest of the crew, like we were human beings, if I wanted to be treated like a maggot I would of bucked up the pain and continued through MCRD San Diego, into the Marine Corps to be shouted at some more, paid little, and live in a condemed hut mile from civilization. I guess I could still do that, maybe I'll do down by the recuiting off, behind the Goodwill.]
 
Good post sunburn.

Really to be honest...it isn't unlikely to check out in any FAA facility in three years like you stated. Maybe it is unlikely at certain FAA facilities...

Here is a quote straight from the FAA....on the FAA Follies website...a site that points out all of managements mistakes...and the FAA Follie staff did not disagree with this statement:

“The most recent data shows that average training time to achieve CPC status is 1.4 years for terminal controllers, and 2.6 years for en route controllers.”

That's average...obviously certain places take longer...certain people take longer...things like that...but as an average.

Here is another quote from the bureau of labor statistics:

"Generally, it takes new controllers with only initial controller training between 2 and 4 years, depending on the facility and the availability of facility staff or contractors to provide on-the-job training, to complete all the certification requirements to become certified professional controllers."
 
Can't we all just get along?!

Really. Not everyone is going to agree with your point of view... deal with it.

ATL and LG, I like y'all a lot better when you're not fighting.

And, much love to both for coming here and sharing advice, but I don't think either of you has an all-encompassing grasp of every single tower and center across the nation. Atlanta != Houston != SoCal != "Throughout the Nation". You're both controllers with years in the double-digits, so obviously you're both speaking from plenty of experience. If there's a discrepancy, chalk it up to regional differences and personal opinions instead of just assuming the other one is ignorant. That's obviously not the case.

All your posts, at least on this thread, don't give any semebelance of helpful information what so ever.

I beg to differ. Explaining PEPC questions, how hubs work, offering to help a few people get in touch with hub managers, personally inviting someone to tour his facility, offering encouragement and things that he likes about his job after doing it for ten years...

That's a lot more than a "semblance" of helpful information.
 
I don't see how you can say that you can't check out at a level 12 within 3 years, I beg to differ actually even at ZNY the average check out is just over 3 years, for a while it was under 3 years, now with staffing shortages the trainees don't get enough time and once they are checked out at a few positions they are put to work instead of getting more training on other positions, hence increasing the process. I know someone at ZNY that is fully certified after 2 years and 6 months, and is making over 100K (yes including 26% locality) and with the amount of overtime he is working will be pushing 150K this year. This statement is a matter of fact not opinion and ZNY is a level 12. Also he is not working ocean so dont even say that b/c we all know ocean traffic is much different than radar. It is possible and most won't b/c a lot of the bigger facilities are short qualifed people to do training, and other qualified people will not train. Really not a reflection on the people going into training more like the fact the FAA does not have enough readily available people willing and qualified to do the training.
 
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