I keep hearing paycut, paycut, paycut, but???

Daughter leaves in 6 days...I'll be there the week of Oct. 13th...let's all get together and have beers.

I would like to take u up on that, however I won't be there till about Oct 18th. I'll take you up on some team slayer though.

Sunburn: Yes go steelers! we will have to get some beers and watch a steelers game or 5
 
It is a pity I am going to miss you ATLTRACON, I won't be in OKC until 6NOV08. But if you get a bug under your armor and want to come up and see your daughter, I'll have a beer with you... just make sure it is a Wednesday at Walnut Gardens. I play I play...

Matt: Hopefully we can go all the way this year, and beat the Giants in the Bowl... just so I can rub it in my ex's face lol.
 
Planning on being there the afternoon of the 10th until the afternoon of the 13th. Let me know, it's not definite but I WILL try to be there those times.

CJ
 
Planning on being there the afternoon of the 10th until the afternoon of the 13th. Let me know, it's not definite but I WILL try to be there those times.

CJ

I'll be there on the 10th staying at citadel, let me know where you want to meet up, and if those dates you are coming are definate.
 
i def agree with LG. I'm at ATL tower and the avg check out time is around 8-9 months. One guy here got checked out in 6 months and there are a couple more right now finishing up training and it took them around 9 months. A lot of it seems to depend on the type of staffing at the facility as was mentioned earlier, and how good of a training program the facility actually has. It just depends on where you get placed at.
 
It is a pity I am going to miss you ATLTRACON, I won't be in OKC until 6NOV08. But if you get a bug under your armor and want to come up and see your daughter, I'll have a beer with you... just make sure it is a Wednesday at Walnut Gardens. I play I play...

Matt: Hopefully we can go all the way this year, and beat the Giants in the Bowl... just so I can rub it in my ex's face lol.


I will definitely see you there on Wednesday I will be staying walnut gardens too.
 
i def agree with LG. I'm at ATL tower and the avg check out time is around 8-9 months. One guy here got checked out in 6 months and there are a couple more right now finishing up training and it took them around 9 months. A lot of it seems to depend on the type of staffing at the facility as was mentioned earlier, and how good of a training program the facility actually has. It just depends on where you get placed at.

I'm jealous! I wanna go to ATL tower!!!
 
yes i will lump into one category....you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years....again, you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years. not everyone can, but it's not impossible...even at ATL TRACON. [/QOUTE]

Just a question,
not sure that it will happen in Miami
"Two years ago, Miami Center was designated as a “focus facility” by the FAA due to our staffing shortage. Developmental controllers were poured into the facility and the FAA changed their training plan. Many of those developmental controllers have sat for almost two years without any training. " taken from here http://Transportation.house.gov/Med...11/Testimony FAA Controller Steve Wallace.pdf

and this is something you are not factoring in. Yes if a trainee comes into a facility and that facility can get the person through classroom, dysim, and on the floor, they can check out in 3 years at many facilities, not any facility. Places like New York ARTCC have change the way they train (Functional Training), because it was taking 7 years to check someone out. Too soon to know if the new training is working better or not.

The train a monkey to do this job is an expression...if you read it literally you are right, it is asinine...if you have a personality, you will see what I wrote for what it is....[/QOUTE]

and a bad expression at that, just like "I can teach a rock to this job, just not a dumb rock". There are others who have used these and it's wrong. This job takes a person with a special skill to do it and over the years, around 50-60% have washed out and I am sure that will continue.

not tony robbins either...but not miserable like you perceive to be...most of your posts fill this forum with all the negativitey about this job....and then you bash someone for showing the positive things of the job and encouraging people...I didn't come out attacking you, I just presented a true account of what is possible in the faa. [/QOUTE]

you do sound like Bruce Johnson as it is rumored that he used your quote about Monkeys many many years ago. You say you want to be positive, well that's great, but there is also reality. In many places, due to staffing, training has or will slow down and it will take longer, just like after the strike, when people sat around for a year waiting to train.
 
looking at these pay scales, is it possible to make 100k in 3 years

by using this site http://forums.atcmonitor.com/studen...faa-air-traffic-control-pay-scale-2008-a.html and what they have as the pay scale.

ATC 12 base $78,200/year so with local (Los Angeles 25.26%) he is making $97,953, so if you could check out in less than a year or 2 and the US gives you a nice cola raise, you could make over 100K, but it looks like only at a level 12 facility and not everyone is going to a 12 and at 12's it will be harder to check out. And how many ATC 12 are there?

ATC 11 base $70,200/year (Los Angeles 25.26%) $87,932 with an avg 3% cola a year, you are looking around 4-5 years.

From my post earlier, those people in Miami that are waiting if I understand this = $33,100 (Miami 19.11%) = $39,425 after 2 years

So what you have is a for a select few it is possible, but you have to go to a ATC12 and get into training very fast & check out very fast. Is it a good pay, that will be up to you and what it will cost you to get there and where you live.
 
yes i will lump into one category....you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years....again, you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years. not everyone can, but it's not impossible...even at ATL TRACON. [/QOUTE]

Just a question,
not sure that it will happen in Miami
"Two years ago, Miami Center was designated as a “focus facility” by the FAA due to our staffing shortage. Developmental controllers were poured into the facility and the FAA changed their training plan. Many of those developmental controllers have sat for almost two years without any training. " taken from here http://Transportation.house.gov/Med...11/Testimony FAA Controller Steve Wallace.pdf

and this is something you are not factoring in. Yes if a trainee comes into a facility and that facility can get the person through classroom, dysim, and on the floor, they can check out in 3 years at many facilities, not any facility. Places like New York ARTCC have change the way they train (Functional Training), because it was taking 7 years to check someone out. Too soon to know if the new training is working better or not.


got a PM from LawnGnome. I think he believes I am being negative about this. I am not, I think each of you coming into this should be aware that there are places that it will happen quickly and places that it doesn't. LG said that a person could check out in any facility in 3 years and I think it is possible in a perfect world, but that is not life and that is not happing in "any facility", but may happen in some, many, a few, etc, if everything works out.
So let me say this again.

and to be clear, I am talking about centers: Yes, if a trainee comes into a facility and that facility can get the person through classroom, dysim, and on the floor, they can check out in 3 years at many facilities, not any facility.[/I] Places like New York ARTCC have change the way they train (Functional Training), because it was taking 7 years to check someone out. Too soon to know if the new training is working better or not.


again that is if everything works out right, but life is not always perfect. As facilities get more trainees and a back log builds, like in Miami, training will take longer.


I am not being negative here, just being real. This happen in 1991 and is again. There was another thread about getting check out in 12 months at ZHU because of Functional Training
http://forums.jetcareers.com/air-traffic-control/68484-artcc-training-times.html

In the past, a trainee would come into a center and learn their maps and LOA, etc. Do some dysim training on the D-side for a sector and then go to the floor for D-side training on all the sectors. After spending some time working as a D-side they would return to class and the dysim for radar training. After that they would return to the floor for r-side training. This program would take 3-4 years, but in my eyes made a better controller.

Now "Functional training" combines all of your training up front, so that when you come to the floor, you now have a "Function" to train on, 2 R-sides & the D-sides with them. You should still start training on the D-sides, but as you progress, we can now add in R-side training along with your D-side training. In some ways this helps, as you get to see what the help an R-side might need, but it hurts, because you don't get to see what is happening at the sectors around you. You also don't get to learn from watching others. Good & Bad, you will have to decide.

Expect to train about 4.5-5.5 hours a day, we try for 5 hours. Doesn't seem like much, wait, there will be days that you will not remember that happen at the start of that day. Then there will be about 30-45 minutes of writing up your performance sheet and talking about how the day went and what you did right or wrong.

Now, if you think you can make it in a year, good luck. The fastest I have seen a trainee make is just at 2 years and he had a lot of radar time at as a military controller. I would guess the avg is around 2.5 - 3.5 years. From what I heard, training in places like NY was taking up 7 years, but I am not sure much has changed there. That time could go up, with a back log of trainee, but that would happen under the old system too. Yes the wash out rate is high, because we are putting a bigger load on your back. The trainee I have right now, is a good trainee (ex-Navy controller) and he just pasted his 1 year in the FAA, he has 1 D-side and we are working on another D-side and also his first 2 R-sides.

I been training people since 1989 and have work with both systems, I like the old way better, but I also think "Functional Trainee" has some good ideas in it. Mr Greg Haywood is a good guy, for a while he was sup in my area and I think wants the trainees to make it, he doesn't look to wash people out. This system is being used at Houston, Chicago & New York.
 
People, when you come into this job, come into it ready to study and work, a sponge ready to soak up everything up can and an open mine to receive all the information they will give you. Going to a center is unlike anything else you have done. Many people with control backgrounds wash out or take just as long to check out as those off the street, because we do things different.

Everyone wants to make more money, I understand that, I want a pay raise again. What you need to understand, is that it is possible to make 100K in a couple of years, if you are one of the exceptional people who fly through training and are at a level 12 facility. If not, it will take longer and if you go to a level 10 or lower, it will take a very long time or never. Not everyone here will go to a level 11 or 12, that is the way it is.
 
Well I don't think I'd too much mind a pay cut, as long as the overall workload drops accordingly. Something tells me this isn't/won't be the case in ATC.



Perhaps this is the post you remember, though not at this site...

http://forums.atcmonitor.com/studen...faa-air-traffic-control-pay-scale-2008-a.html

Though I could be wrong about this, when people talk about a pay cut, I believe it means that the new pay bands, the 'white book' pay bands (there's a link to an excel file with 2008 pay info in the post where the 'mapping' in done) are roughly 30% lower than the older, 'green book' versions.

By the way, I've done some searching, and I can't find the old pay bands, though I'm very curious as to what they were - something more specific than '30 percent less'. Anybody have a link providing this information? Thanks to whoever can fill me in here!

Somebody posted this on the Natca BBS today. I can't guarantee its accurate but it seems to fall in line with what the "A scalers" make at my fac. Obama '08 my friends!

CPC
Lvl 3: $45,158 to $63,221
Lvl 4: $48,205 to $67,487
Lvl 5: $54,712 to $76,597
Lvl 6: $60,458 to $84,641
Lvl 7: $66,807 to $93,530
Lvl 8: $73,822 to $103,351
Lvl 9: $81,572 to $114,201
Lvl 10: $93,808 to $131,331
Lvl 11: $98,731 to $138,223
Lvl 12: $103,669 to $145,137
This is 2006 pay WITHOUT locality or pay raises...



HD

 
Man, if I got my dream facility(ZLA) and we went back to that pay scale....wooooohoooooooo...I would be in hog heaven!
 
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