I keep hearing paycut, paycut, paycut, but???

Hockey9

New Member
I read somewhere on this site in which someone mapped out a payscale that showed someone making overk 100k jsut 3 years into being an ATC??? is this still true???
 

Trident

New Member
I read somewhere on this site in which someone mapped out a payscale that showed someone making overk 100k jsut 3 years into being an ATC??? is this still true???
UMM---CJ....You out there?

I think you need to chime in on this one.
 

Rosstafari

Likes tacos
Man. I get uneasy when pay is the first thing that comes out of some applicant's mouths in talking about their future as a controller. I'm not saying that's what the OP was necessarily getting at... but when I was talking to some people before our AT-SAT started, all one guy could talk about was how he'd be making six figures in just a few years being a controller. Something about that unnerves me... it's not the kind of job you get into for the cash.

Anyway, to get back to the original question, it's not really a case of walking into the Academy and *boom* three years later, 100k+. Recently, in another thread (the link escapes me at the moment), one experienced controller mentioned that only a minority reach the top pay scales. It depends on location, experience, skill level, certification... lots of things. And there's no guarantee whatsoever that someone will be able to reach full certification in three years anyway; it's very dependent on the person, location, trainers... see what I'm getting at here?

In other words, if you're asking out of curiosity, the answer is that it's highly unlikely that any new controllers will hit six figures in three years. If you're asking because it's a motivating factor in making a career choice... well, you may want to re-evaluate your priorities. Just my opinion, of course.
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
UMM---CJ....You out there?

I think you need to chime in on this one.
I don't have the pay numbers in front of me, but I will tell you this.

The CTI/VRA's are making nowhere near 100k, let alone 50k after two and a half years. They are just now moving into the training phase working ATL satellite IE FTY/PDK/LZU/RYY/MGE traffic just miles from ATL or are starting on ATL arrivals and departures. Some, maybe more than some will not make it...they have been coddled into a false sense of security by working only the farthest/easiest (old lvl 6) airspace. You actually can see the fear in their eyes.

Some if not more than some will be offered lower level facilities (where they should have gone in the first place) but some will not. The days of making 140k base salary are long gone and will not in the near future or ever be seen again.
 

Zeppelinpilot

New Member
ATLTRACON...Have you ever had a trainee that was just exceptional? Like so good you could not believe it? Anyone even close? Just curious if there are such people.
 

Philip

New Member
ATLTRACON...Have you ever had a trainee that was just exceptional? Like so good you could not believe it? Anyone even close? Just curious if there are such people.
besides himself when orville wright trained him how to move traffic back in the day I assume?
 

GnW

New Member
ATLTRACON...Have you ever had a trainee that was just exceptional? Like so good you could not believe it? Anyone even close? Just curious if there are such people.
i'm no controller yet, but i've watched about 20 trainees go through the DYSIM. i'd say 1 or 2 stood out as far as handling traffic and dealing with unexpected situations. the rest were average. i realize it isnt real traffic, but some of the problems get ridiculously busy.
-_-
 

LawnGnome

Well-Known Member
it depends on what facility you go to...i have seen a cti guy go through a level 12 tower in 8 months...he was making i believe to include locality pay 99K a year...that's after 8 months....yes you can make that much within 3 years....to be honest...you should be able to check out in any faa facility in 3 years...some people can't...but....just put some effort into it...you can train a monkey to do this job...it's not that hard...don't listent people that say it is....it's hard if you make it hard...if you have the right mindest, you can do it...very easy, no problems...if you don't have the mindest...you won't make it...simple as that....i couldn't make it as an accountant...i would hate my life...but i love controlling....it just comes down to what you are cut out for....again...3 years and you should be CPC in any faa facility....don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
it depends on what facility you go to...i have seen a cti guy go through a level 12 tower in 8 months...he was making i believe to include locality pay 99K a year...that's after 8 months....yes you can make that much within 3 years....to be honest...you should be able to check out in any faa facility in 3 yearsOK I was almost asleep when i read this and I'm throwing the BS flag I don't know where you work, but it's not a busy level 12/13 IE ATL/A80...some people can't...but....just put some effort into itcause those that can't/haven't yet just aren't giving it the old college try...you can train a monkey to do this job.that has got to be the most asinine statement I have ever heard..you in manglement?..it's not that hard...don't listent people that say it is....it's hard if you make it hard...if you have the right mindest, you can do itTony Robbins???...very easy, no problems...if you don't have the mindest...you won't make it...simple as that....i couldn't make it as an accountant...i would hate my life...but i love controlling....it just comes down to what you are cut out for....again...3 years and you should be CPC in any faa facility....don't let anyone tell you otherwise.Meaning...???????[/quote]

You are right...everyone that doesn't get checked out in three years should what??? quit, feel worse about themselves cause you said they should be able to get checked out. You are definitely a manglement hack or someone who does NOT work at a BUSY level 12. How dare you lump everyone into one category. We have about 10 maybe out of the initial 30 (the rest fired)that showed up and NONE are checked out in more than two positions and have YEARS until they do...if ever. DO NOT lump everyone into one mold..especially when you DO NOT work at the busier facilities...you look ignorant.

Houston huh??? We work more planes in three hours than you do ALL day...sorry to rant but your ignorance pisses me off.
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
ATLTRACON...Have you ever had a trainee that was just exceptional? Like so good you could not believe it? Anyone even close? Just curious if there are such people.
Exceptional no...good yes. Still took a year or so to get checked out at a lower level 12.
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
whats this level 13 i keep hearing about. when did this come about? where can i find what the traffic count min/max is for the corresponding level.
 

Guire

New Member
Well I don't think I'd too much mind a pay cut, as long as the overall workload drops accordingly. Something tells me this isn't/won't be the case in ATC.

I read somewhere on this site in which someone mapped out a payscale that showed someone making overk 100k jsut 3 years into being an ATC??? is this still true???
Perhaps this is the post you remember, though not at this site...

http://forums.atcmonitor.com/studen...faa-air-traffic-control-pay-scale-2008-a.html

Though I could be wrong about this, when people talk about a pay cut, I believe it means that the new pay bands, the 'white book' pay bands (there's a link to an excel file with 2008 pay info in the post where the 'mapping' in done) are roughly 30% lower than the older, 'green book' versions.

By the way, I've done some searching, and I can't find the old pay bands, though I'm very curious as to what they were - something more specific than '30 percent less'. Anybody have a link providing this information? Thanks to whoever can fill me in here!
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
whats this level 13 i keep hearing about. when did this come about? where can i find what the traffic count min/max is for the corresponding level.
A80 has been running the equivalent traffic of a level 13, actually a 14 now, for about five years. When Marion Snakey came into power she told us, though we have been running that amount of traffic according to THEIR own traffic count rules/numbers, no one was going to get level 13 or 14 pay. Classic.
 

LawnGnome

Well-Known Member
yes i will lump into one category....you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years....again, you can check out in ANY faa facility in three years. not everyone can, but it's not impossible...even at ATL TRACON. I've got a friend that checked out in SoCal TRACON in two years....he makes over 100K a year now...that's with going to the FAA Academy. A lot of it has to do with how much time you are getting on position and how much time you are alloted for each position...

I know you think ATL Tracon is the busiest facility in the u.s. or hardest or what not...but every other facility in the u.s. will try to claim the same thing. each facility uses diferent numbers to say...well...we do the most planes per day....another one...well we do the most VFR a/c per day...well we have the most complex airpsace....you can spin it however you want. yes ATL Airport does the most operations in the U.S out of any control tower, you have four parallel runways, or five, you also have one of the most delays, if not the most delays out of any airport in the country.

Throw the BS flag about a new hire getting checked out in 8 months at a level 12 tower...it happened...it will happen again...he makes 100K a year. it could also take a new hire a lot longer to check out in a level 12 tower and other new hires will also wash out...it has happened...it will continue to happen. for you to tell someone that they can't make 100K in three years is asinine, because they can...it depends on where you go and if you have what it takes to do the job. do not tell me to lump everyone in one mold when you just did telling people they can't make 100K in 3 years.

The train a monkey to do this job is an expression...if you read it literally you are right, it is asinine...if you have a personality, you will see what I wrote for what it is....

not tony robbins either...but not miserable like you perceive to be...most of your posts fill this forum with all the negativitey about this job....and then you bash someone for showing the positive things of the job and encouraging people...I didn't come out attacking you, I just presented a true account of what is possible in the faa.

I'm not in management...I also don't have the hate management mindset like you seem to have. it takes two to tango....there were faults on both sides...both natca and the faa...if you can't see that you are naive.

Atl tracon works more planes in 3 hours than a lot of facilities...the ENTIRE TRACON...not an individual controller there. you don't work the entire tracon by yourself...the TRACON owns probably 500 times the airspace of a class B tower....of course the tracon will work more planes...a monkey could figure that out. you can't compare the complexity of a tracon to a tower or the traffic...it's two different things.

your post ranting about what I said looks ignorant and shows how miserable you are. i'm sorry you feel so bad...i like my job...if i was miserable like you perceive to be, i would not be controlling planes, i don't care how much they paid me....

i'm giving these controllers the positive side of things...you give them the negative...yes...there are both positives and negatives of the job, well obviously not for you...they are just all negative from what you say.
 

Rosstafari

Likes tacos
not tony robbins either...but not miserable like you perceive to be...most of your posts fill this forum with all the negativitey about this job....and then you bash someone for showing the positive things of the job and encouraging people...
...
i'm giving these controllers the positive side of things...you give them the negative...
I've got to agree with LG here... ATL, I've long appreciated you sharing your experience with us, but he's right, it is pretty heavily slanted towards the negative side of your job. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing -- I don't trust an assessment of any job that doesn't include the negatives, and given the current situation, I expect to hear plenty of bitterness and frustration on of the part of controllers -- but if I didn't take some of what you said with a grain of salt I'd expect most ATCS to have either blown their heads off or found their way into a padded room within their first year.

I don't think Lawn Gnome is saying it's all sunshine and roses either. There are very few long-term controllers on this forum and it's helpful to have more than one view of the industry, what new people like myself can expect, and so on. I appreciate having some positive things to look forward to, after all... and I'm sure anyone in either of y'alls place wouldn't still be in this line of work if, at the end of the day, you didn't love what you're doing.

In any case, I'd be overwhelmingly happy if I were to end up with either of you as my trainer. You've both made huge contributions to my preparation in the whole application process, and peace of mind for myself and my family as I've been able to figure out how this all goes down and what we have to look forward to. So thanks for that.

Can I get a witness?
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
He's right ANYONE can check out in ANY facility in three years...BTW good luck in that. Cause he's knows EVERYONE and has worked in EVERY facility. Again ignorant to lump every facility into your sunshine and buttercup theory. I'll let every trainee that has been at A80 for over three years know that they should have already checked out.

BTW...busiest airport in the WORLD averaging 144 landings an hour sometimes more, 4th or 5th busiest approach control in the WORLD with some of the most congested satellite airspace in the WORLD. Spin that.

Must be the 6 day weeks 10 hour days....32 week in a row of mandatory OT, 99 out of a possible 112 weeks of mandatory OT.
 
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