Scouting & Weather Safety

[Beaker]

I enjoyed that article from Chess in the Air. I went through a lot of similar calculations when I was deciding if I would return to flying or not. An important consideration for me was the background risk of being a middle-aged male who keeps managing to get a year older despite all efforts to the contrary. That's a very risky thing to be. Powered GA flying, done with care, falls below my background risk. I am not sure that gliding does, which makes me a bit sad. It was also interesting to see the huge spread in GA safety statistics depending on the type of operation. Personal flying is way worse than the average 1 per 100,000; training organizations with a lot of standardization such as ERAU appear to be doing way better. All operating similar equipment. Anyways, I think we are likely aligned in philosophical framework but have some different ideas on where to draw the line, which is only natural.

And I think you feel the same as every thesis writer, ever.

 

[Avalon781ML]

From a SAR point of view (and a bit of a generalization), the Scouts risk assessment protocols and their adherence to them are terrible.

I think it varies widely from troop to troop. Most of the incidents I read about are from troops that have little experience in the areas where they find themselves in a pickle.

 

[Avalon781ML]

That's going to happen naturally. Do to unforeseen issues arising. Intentionally putting kids in situations that could cause some (low) level of danger/character building is weak sauce.

Learning to not go camping when there is a forecast for tornados should be learned from watching experienced people make that decision, not going camping and having a treen fall down right next to your tent and saying "well I won't do that next time", especially if you are a kid. There is a ton of research showing that Scared Straight (TM) was a stupid idea.

Or maybe change the idea of not going camping to… an adult leader will be up at all times during the night monitoring the weather conditions and if a certain predetermined limit is breached we relocate via vehicle to xyz location for safety?

 

[BobDDuck]

Or maybe change the idea of not going camping to… an adult leader will be up at all times during the night monitoring the weather conditions and if a certain predetermined limit is breached we relocate via vehicle to xyz location for safety?

That's a possible plan. My point was more along the lines of "we did it this way 50 years ago when I was a scout, so we are going to do it the same way now" mentality that is present in almost all of the troops I've worked with.

 

[Avalon781ML]

That's a possible plan. My point was more along the lines of "we did it this way 50 years ago when I was a scout, so we are going to do it the same way now" mentality that is present in almost all of the troops I've worked with.

Fair point… my bad for not recognizing it.

 

[Lawman]

Or maybe change the idea of not going camping to… an adult leader will be up at all times during the night monitoring the weather conditions and if a certain predetermined limit is breached we relocate via vehicle to xyz location for safety?

We maintained a fire watch in my troop.

That was a standard for us, but largely driven by our core scoutmasters all being veterans/active duty dads.


Some of the best experiences I had camping in scouts were during the most extremes of weather, but that said there was still a disciplined approach to it. As one of the three oldest boys in the troop we took it on ourselves to camp in the Adirondack huts and not the barn on condition we could make it safe. Spent the whole day gathering cords of wood up in -30 temps. At sundown our scout master came out to basically tell us to pull up camp and come back to the barn site. He thought it was really weird when about 50 feet off he saw us sitting in tshirts and jeans. We had that hut up to damn near 80 degrees with the central stove. They decided to have the campfire ceremony with us instead of the rickety old barn.

That was one of those “man triumphs against his trial by his own will” moments that you need to have in your life. I was 15, and I had many more in scouting.


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[Murdoughnut]

That's a possible plan. My point was more along the lines of "we did it this way 50 years ago when I was a scout, so we are going to do it the same way now" mentality that is present in almost all of the troops I've worked with.

That is exactly the attitude I ran into - the troop is run by ex-eagle scouts, and they see the horrible campouts they went on as a right of passage. I actually don't disagree with this. I quit after reaching First Class because I hated camping - particularly after a campout where we slept outside in a field after a rain storm and I was harassed all night by bugs and picked up a tick I found while showering at home. Kids should be motivated to do tough things, otherwise Eagle wouldn't mean much. But if any organization should recognize the fallacy of just doing things the way they used to, without a model for continual improvement, it's certainly Scouting. They're current youth protection training is actually pretty solid, but it had to come after years of the organization looking past a lot of bad stuff because "we've always had Scoutmasters the kids found weird and didn't like"