Fixtur
Dunning-Kruger Expert
I would posit that safety is integral to their continued financial performance. But I'm just a pilot. What do I know about running a giant manufacturing firm?
United has some splainin to do…
- Thread starter invadertim
- Start date
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Deeeeeeeeee Eeeeeeeeeee EYEEEEE
J/k
On a serious note, saw a video online of a new UAL guy going through upgrade. The amount of “bro” and “brah” being exuded was… gross and excessive.
J/k
On a serious note, saw a video online of a new UAL guy going through upgrade. The amount of “bro” and “brah” being exuded was… gross and excessive.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
How about the 777 at OGG, the 767 at IAH, the 757 at EWR. Several of those involved new FOs. Or a new CA on type.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
And then there’s a video by my layover life CA at United, where he takes his crew out during a London layover. The girl FO looks like she’s 22. He points at some random ass tower on a hill and tells her that’s the Eiffel Tower. And that you can see the Eiffel Tower in Paris from London. And for a minute, she actually falls for it. Imagine being second in command of a 757/767 and not having command of basic geography.
The dawn/era of the new kids is here…
The dawn/era of the new kids is here…
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
I know the OGG, what were the other 2?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Hard landings. The 757 at ewr from what I understand was a new FO, and a new LCP (though experienced CA). IAH was apparently a pretty experienced crew in both seats.
IAH was a multiple bounce of the nose wheel. The scary thing is, it was actually fairly calm winds, not some gusty approach. Skin warped on fuselage:
NTSB Shares Preliminary Report On United Airlines Boeing 767 Hard Landing In Houston
The NTSB has issued a preliminary report on what might be N641UA's last landing, a hard landing with multiple bounces.
simpleflying.com
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
ugh. I clicked the ignored content.
As if the Eskimo doesn’t have our skeletons, and I only know the ones that get openly talked about in indoc.
As if the Eskimo doesn’t have our skeletons, and I only know the ones that get openly talked about in indoc.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I never said any airline was perfect. Everyone is having their share of issues.
Flyinthrew
Well-Known Member
I'm late to the thread, but I see a vast number of our weirdest stuff when it happens. There is almost nothing United has done lately that we haven't done within about the same time frame. We haven't bent an airframe, but we did have to land one with the nose gear still stowed. We didn't skid one into the dirt at the high speed, but it hasn't been that long since we landed a 330 short of the threshold in AMS.
What I think may be a differentiator is how the company safety apparatus and the culture as a whole react to each event.
What I think may be a differentiator is how the company safety apparatus and the culture as a whole react to each event.
It was a number of incidents in a short timeframe that got Delta in the FAAs gunsights.
Delta got their ops audited by an FAA Special Inspection in the late 1980s (1987), with numerous accidents and incidents occurring in a short timeframe...within about 3 years.
Delta was re-inspected in 1988, and had instituted major changes in the below noted deficiencies by 1989.
- The Delta L-1011 that get about 60 miles off course on the North Atlantic Track, passing just underneath a CAL 747.
- Delta 767 departing LAX where Capt shuts down both engines, luckily restarting them prior to ditching into the Pacific. Then continuing the flight to CVG.
- Delta jet wrong-airport landing, like has happened to other airlines, mistaking Frankfort Ky for Lexington.
- Delta jet landing on wrong parallel at CVG.
- Delta 191 landing accident DFW
- Delta 1141 takeoff accident DFW (post audit)
In part, the FAA's 1987 special inspection of Delta, which came about due to these incidents occurring in such a short timeframe, found items (at the time) such as"observed instances of a breakdown of communications, a lack of crew coordination, and lapses of discipline in Delta's cockpits." as well as a "...lack of organization, coordination, standardization and discipline in the cockpit that can be attributed to minimal guidance in the flight manuals and a lack of direction from those who develop, supervise and manage flight training and standardization programs"
Also noted by the inspection team were inadequate manuals and procedures, with a recommendation made that "Delta Air Lines study, develop, and publish specific crew duties for each crewmember. These functions should be placed in applicable manuals, and checking phases."
With regards to training, checking and standardization, it was observed that "on numerous occasions on which check airman conducted excessive training during check rides...." and that "Additionally, the 1987 special inspection team report noted that Delta's check airmen were not upholding a high level of standards on proficiency checks," and that "the team observed that orals are in general very brief, questions shallow, and the standard of knowledge low." The FAA Inspection team found documented cases of check airman failing to record unsatisfactory performances by Delta pilots. To the FAA, this constituted a violation of 14 CFR 121.401(c).
It was recommended that better documentation of unsatisfactory performance be maintained, and that "Delta's management needs to give serious consideration to the implications of tolerating minimum standards in training and on proficiency checks." Delta was also ordered to adopt many of Western Airlines’ training and checking practices; the airline they were acquiring at the time.
So basically, no one airline or operation is immune to problems or rough patches in their time. The best airline today, could've had a very rocky time before, and vice versa. Sometimes, the gyros need to be completely re-caged at an organization.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
“I’m not on social media”
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Beat me to it!
That’s the same thing the retired pilots on “Widget Chit Chat” say.
“You know, by virtue of typing this on a forum, you ARE on social media!”
Again, a word of caution about UAL.
Things, at an airline, and yes even your airline, have things happen daily. When you look on the safety side of the house, for every one “OMG WTF” thing that hits the media, there are probably ten that have not, even the high profile events.
Airlines can make YouTube videos disappear and make it look like child’s play. That Google article you saw about something didn’t get reindexed, it got “sanitized”.
But seriously, we all live in glass houses, I can’t stress this enough.
Things, at an airline, and yes even your airline, have things happen daily. When you look on the safety side of the house, for every one “OMG WTF” thing that hits the media, there are probably ten that have not, even the high profile events.
Airlines can make YouTube videos disappear and make it look like child’s play. That Google article you saw about something didn’t get reindexed, it got “sanitized”.
But seriously, we all live in glass houses, I can’t stress this enough.
Sure am hoping so...
It's high time.
Still... POI responses to formal requests are out about 3-4 months right now... So, you know, don't hold yer breath.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I’m not. It was on YouTube. I watch some VASAviation videos and then the homepage had a link to his video. That’s some next level algorithm thing.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I think what most people mean by that is the Facebooks, instagrams, and Tiktoks. Not aviation forums.
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