Thunderstorm avoidance

Bamaaviator

Well-Known Member
Is it somewhat common for freight pilots to unintentionally fly into a thunderstorm? I've heard some of them have. Don't know if it was intentional or inadvertent, but I have heard some freight pilots tell me it 'has' happened to them before. I just wanted to hear from other freight guys on here if it's happened to you before, and what did you do to ride it out to the other side? It's hard to tell if these other freight guys I talked to are exaggerating or if they really did fly through a CB. Not saying I wanna go and try it by any means, but just wanted to hear about some of your experiences?
 
Not sure what you're looking for, but yes, I had the very unpleasant experience of flying into a cell while flying a Chieftain at Ameriflight.

Mind you, this was in northern California, so not like the super storms that get cooked up in the midwest and southeast; but I assure you that I spent many unhappy minutes inside a black cloud that was flashing bright white every couple of minutes and bouncing me off of my seatbelt straps.

How did it happen? Night time IFR with no on board radar, flying out of an airport where the FBO had already closed (no wx computer available). I knew there were storms all over the area because I had flown in on the previous leg through pretty good turbulence and icing. I asked ATC to provide guidance around cells, but they were apparently unable to see the precipitation returns in my area very well.

I informed ATC of the situation and they advised that aircraft several miles ahead (being vectored for the approaches into OAK were breaking out fairly high, so I rode it out. Once I was out of the clouds, I continued to ride through moderate turbulence all the way to short final. I also saw numerous lighting strikes a few miles to the west.

It's possible. It's survivable. But I hope to never experience it again.
 
If you fly freight in something with no radar long enough, you'll eventually clip one. I was fortunate that I never penetrated anything bad.

Get it to a power setting and trim that gets you below Va, keep the wings level and don't worry about altitude.

I don't know anyone who does it intentionally.
 
Not sure what you're looking for, but yes, I had the very unpleasant experience of flying into a cell while flying a Chieftain at Ameriflight.

Mind you, this was in northern California, so not like the super storms that get cooked up in the midwest and southeast; but I assure you that I spent many unhappy minutes inside a black cloud that was flashing bright white every couple of minutes and bouncing me off of my seatbelt straps.

How did it happen? Night time IFR with no on board radar, flying out of an airport where the FBO had already closed (no wx computer available). I knew there were storms all over the area because I had flown in on the previous leg through pretty good turbulence and icing. I asked ATC to provide guidance around cells, but they were apparently unable to see the precipitation returns in my area very well.

I informed ATC of the situation and they advised that aircraft several miles ahead (being vectored for the approaches into OAK were breaking out fairly high, so I rode it out. Once I was out of the clouds, I continued to ride through moderate turbulence all the way to short final. I also saw numerous lighting strikes a few miles to the west.

It's possible. It's survivable. But I hope to never experience it again.
That's insane. I've been looking into doing part 135 freight but that has been one area that I'm unsure of and uneasy about: thunderstorm penetration by accident. The other pilots I spoke to in person seemed like they were terrified when it happened to them. However, one guy I spoke to said something to the effect of "flying through cells is really not as bad as people think it is." When he said that I thought this guy is either insane or he really REALLY doesn't mind flying through these nasty monsters. He seemed more relaxed about thunderstorms. Said he's been through "every color on the radar." I shuddered when he said that. Lol. The idea of freight flying sounds fun to me. But this is one thing that does cross my mind sometimes, particularly with companies that operate piston airplanes, and with very minimal weather avoidance equipment, or no equipment at all. My question is, do companies pressure you to go out and fly in this kind of weather? Especially when you have areas of embedded storms or lines of storms? For example, you have a fast moving cold front sweeping across the country with a nasty squall line out in front of it. The squall is a few hundred miles in length from southwest to northeast, no breaks in the line. Your route takes you west across the front. Basically, there really is no way around it. These weather events are rare, but in this scenario, there's 2 options. Well I would probably say 3 options. Fly through the squall, delay operation, or cancel. I would assume the company wouldn't want to hear the third option. Do companies give you much leeway in making the go/no go decision? Or do they put pressure on you to get out there and fly regardless of the weather? I would imagine this scenario would require a tough decision for any freight pilot to make. Do many companies honor your request to delay or cancel if you really know that it's not safe? I'm aware that I could be naive here, which is why I'm asking you guys. I don't do this type of flying, but would like to some day. Please fill me in on this.
 
I flew for a company in the southeast flying piston singles.

I was never pressured to fly into anything unsafe. You either delay departure or find an intermediate airport, fly to it, wait for the line to pass, then continue. And fly where there's no lightning. :)
 
I flew for a company in the southeast flying piston singles.

I was never pressured to fly into anything unsafe. You either delay departure or find an intermediate airport, fly to it, wait for the line to pass, then continue. And fly where there's no lightning. :)
That's sounds more comforting!
 
in my caravan 135 days I flew through two memorable cells.
1. small line of cells flying at 12,000 ft from RDU-LAN, tops were around FL200 with some intermittent tops around FL300. Not really anywhere to go unless land and wait for to pass, but it wasn't that intense. Radar was "ok" on that tail number but I just told the controller to point me to the least shaded red and the thinnest portion...asked if anyone else had gone through and he kindly replied "you're the first, let us know how it is!", Penetrated with dark grey and heavy rain, strong moderate turbulence that kicked the AP off (yes lucky enough to have a KFC150 on board). AND then I got struck by lightening right on the spinner...which really rattled me because I thought I was through most of it but nothing happened to any systems. Then an uneventful localizer to mins at lansing.

2. over west Texas just west of Abilene descending to avoid buildups into Lubbock at 330AM...massive amount of lightening form a cell topping 400 and while descending I caught the very side of it around 6000 and got knocked around decent amount but not too bad...didn't even get rain but the lightening was insane, probably 1-5 miles off my right wing...definitely didn't want to do that again but nothing significant happened after that.

Left the SP135 life shortly after that.....ironically only to join it 5 years later with Flexjet...but different kind of 135 thankfully
 
@UAL747400 your favorite topic!

Don't deviate, penetrate!
Don't be late either. Also be safe, but don't be a *other name for cat*.
You are such an ass for tagging me during my most vocal hour @z987k!!!

To preface, I didn't read the thread AT ALL! :) In my experience, piston line flying is WAY more difficult with weather in general than a turbo-prop. I can only correlate that it would be even easier in a jet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we'll probably disagree... :)

No, you're NOT going to run out of gas, with up to 45 degree deviations in something that can get into the flight levels. Go around that shiz! You'll add MAYBE 3 minutes to your flight in a turbo-prop. Maybe what, 40 seconds in a jet?

In a piston/ sub 10k turbo-prop, you have to be MUCH more vigilant. You're WAY too slow to go after a gap in a squall line more than 50 miles out. You're far to slow to deviate around large areas of weather and you have far less fuel to play with to wait for something to move out of the way. I would even drop down to a known cell tower location to get an updated "big picture" if I could if it was a really nasty night. 1500 AGL should do it. 1 year piston/sub 10k piston and turbine freight. I had no radar at Flight Express, but was *approved to navigate convective weather visually*. You can, but you have to be psychotically more vigilant. Sub 10k turbine flying doesn't typically have the best on-board radar in the world though. The big picture is more important than ever. Don't forget, FSS/ATC and other pilots are your best friend.

General radar usage, paint the 10k level to gauge the overall intensity. Paint the ground to check for attenuation. Turning the gain down can accomplish the same thing over water/high altitude when the ground isn't available. The tops are frozen (You probably won't paint the tops). Nothing on the radar doesn't mean there isn't anything there. Wet hail will appear as a small, high intensity shaft. Dry hail aloft probably won't appear at all (paint 10k to see if there is a storm there). Every 2 degrees down from your pitch attitude (if your radar doesn't account for this) is about 1000 feet every 10 miles with most dishes. KingAirs/99s/other small dishes is about 3-4 degrees. @seagull has a great article on this and applies directly to your specific airplane when you find out the width of your radar dish.

General decision making. More than 10k thick, you're going to get Moderate turbulence. I don't care how macho and tough or how much of a SUPER FREIGHT HOUND F YEAH FREIGHT ASS CLOWN/LCC airline HELL YEAH ON TIME BISHES you are, that is moderate turbulence, in ANY airplane. More than 20k thick, you're probably going to damage your airplane. By damage, I mean that you might die, or only pop a rivet or two. Grounded/carpet dancing with your CP either-way. I'm lowly freight and HIGHLY recommend people get VERY disciplined for lightning/hail strikes/more than moderate turbulence encounters associated with convective activity. The ONLY reason those happen is because the crew is Fing STUPID. FACT. Happens every damn day, unchecked, sadly. Anyways, if you're anywhere south of Mexico, avoid EVERYTHING that's green on your radar. I don't give a rats butthole what you think you've seen. Green south of there might kill you. Read up tropical storms and the ICTZ if you don't believe be. Your best bet in a slow airplane is to change your departure time. Early is usually not an option. Late might mean you'll miss a connection. As PIC, it's up to you to make that call, and consult with your ACP/CP/DO if you're unsure. Ultimately, you're the PIC and you're immediate supervisor should be backing you up.

Long story short, be a bish, avoid everything. Those walking around and those belted in will thank you. :)
 
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Is it somewhat common for freight pilots to unintentionally fly into a thunderstorm? I've heard some of them have. Don't know if it was intentional or inadvertent, but I have heard some freight pilots tell me it 'has' happened to them before. I just wanted to hear from other freight guys on here if it's happened to you before, and what did you do to ride it out to the other side? It's hard to tell if these other freight guys I talked to are exaggerating or if they really did fly through a CB. Not saying I wanna go and try it by any means, but just wanted to hear about some of your experiences?
In short, no.

I flew for 6 months at Flight Express. Piston freight in 210s and Barons from St. Paul to Omaha to Wichita. The worst convective weather there is. NEVER asked to fly through anything. @Boris Badenov can back me up. You were however expected, at all times, to provide an alternative route, and the company would decide if it was worth it. In my case, I've run as much as 6 hours late waiting for 2 different squall lines to pass through at 2 different airports from STP to OMA.

Ameriflight is similar, but if you were going to miss the jet, they'd probably scrub the flight. Line pilots that have had problems with this had crappy/not respected ACPs.

Other freight/135s can vary to the more conservative or asinine. Depends, but ultimately it's your certificate and life on the line depending on your experience, airplane limits, and how much management will back you up on thathe world. When in doubt, walk away, always. Easier said than done sometimes, but it will work out in your favor every time eventually.
 
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Anyways, if you're anywhere south of Mexico, avoid EVERYTHING that's green on your radar. I don't give a rats butthole what you think you've seen. Green south of there might kill you. Read up tropical storms and the ICTZ if you don't believe be. Your best bet in a slow airplane is to change your departure time. Early is usually not an option. Late might mean you'll miss a connection.

Worst turbulence I've been in was departing Brownsville in just green paint on the radar. Turbulence rolling off the mountains in Mexico are no joke!
 
Worst turbulence I've been in was departing Brownsville in just green paint on the radar. Turbulence rolling off the mountains in Mexico are no joke!
Yeah man, I came down here thinking it'd be like FL build ups. Didn't bother reading about it before hand. So wrong! Haha
 
To their credit, Ameriflight was very conservative about hazardous weather when I was there. I Delayed departure more than once waiting for a storm to pass.
 
FedeEx canceled my flight every time there was a TS in New England- called by 1700.
Flying bank checks was Waaay different- my buddy squaked a tornado off the north end of Abilene just as I was getting the living • kicked outta me on the South approach- couldn't see nothin!
 
Not sure what you're looking for, but yes, I had the very unpleasant experience of flying into a cell while flying a Chieftain at Ameriflight.

Mind you, this was in northern California, so not like the super storms that get cooked up in the midwest and southeast; but I assure you that I spent many unhappy minutes inside a black cloud that was flashing bright white every couple of minutes and bouncing me off of my seatbelt straps.

How did it happen? Night time IFR with no on board radar, flying out of an airport where the FBO had already closed (no wx computer available). I knew there were storms all over the area because I had flown in on the previous leg through pretty good turbulence and icing. I asked ATC to provide guidance around cells, but they were apparently unable to see the precipitation returns in my area very well.

I informed ATC of the situation and they advised that aircraft several miles ahead (being vectored for the approaches into OAK were breaking out fairly high, so I rode it out. Once I was out of the clouds, I continued to ride through moderate turbulence all the way to short final. I also saw numerous lighting strikes a few miles to the west.

It's possible. It's survivable. But I hope to never experience it again.

Happened to me a couple of times at AMF. I was even struck by lightning at night. There are two reasons to find yourself inside a cell, the way @Cal Goat described, or purposeful stupidity. I have had co-workers tell me that "they aren't that bad, and to go through it" like they regularly did.
 
I recall a story about a a Flight Express 210 being sucked in an updraft to something in the range of 30,000. It was at night in Florida, I don't recall where I heard it, but it was a credible source. Being a previous OOTSK, I believe it.

I have never deliberately flown though a TS, but I have found myself clipping the yellow/red echos.
 
I thought picking around thunderstorms was easier in the 402 then the metro. 402 you were low enough to dodge the rain shafts. In the metro, pick an altitude where you're not going to pick up ice, and buckle up. If the "weather" was a level 3 or less, I didn't even deviate around it. Mid level 3 or Higher I would try to find the soft spot. It's like anything else in aviation, find a comfort level and build on it slowly with experience. Now in the Pilatus (flying EMS) I have to fly like a RJ pilot, if I scare the medcrew, I probably won't have a job. I miss freight...
 
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