Why do people attend Pan-Am?

[ QUOTE ]
The FSI forum has more threads and posts than any other school's. However, the number of negative posts is still lower (not just percentage....total posts) than anyone elses.

[/ QUOTE ]


Wow... someone has entirely too much time on their hands to sit, read and count every thread of every school so that the can tally up a score on every school. Chunk.. Is it possible for you to post this tally for us... I think it would prove quite interesting for all of us.
 
"...the doctor said my nose would stop bleeding if i could just keep my finger out of there..." Ralph
 
E7,
Talk about making stuff up. The fact is that Flight Safety does not have any management problems. Our management is cool as hell. They provide a professional, friendly atmosphere in which to train and are alway's trying their hardest to make sure we have the resources and connections to further our career. As for people washing out of our program. You do not wash out here because FSA does not make promises for CFI jobs or gauranteed interviews like other schools. If you do not wish to continue your training you simply withdrawal from the school just like any other. They will provide the best quality training and the rest is up to you. I only know of one person who has left FSA in the past two and a half years. This girl left last summer and went to Worstwind in Phoenix because she said FSA was to hard. The truth is that she had OVER 35 unsat lessons because she either did not study or had absolutley no business being in an airplane. She even left her boyfriend behind who was an insructor here. If anyone knows of others who chose not to study and leave FSA please correct me. Even if there are a few more I may not know about it wouldn't even come close to the amount of people who run from Pan-Am.

You know, I asked a simple question in the beginning of this thread and I recieved the exact answer I thought I would. The majority of the students at Pan-Am had issues and one member of management or whatever you are (E7) jumped in to try to market the school. I do love controversy though and this thread has definitely been interesting. I am finished here. Peace out...ILS
 
OK, OK, I thought I was finished until I saw this post Chunk posted. This one is for you E7. Lets see, Pan-Am promises gauranteed interviews and Worstwind promises a gauranteed CFI job if they both don't "wash" you out first. This is from a school somewhere in California.
[ QUOTE ]
d)
Academy training versus 'smaller flight schools'
Some academies in their advertising make you believe that they are the only way to go.
That is however like saying if you cannot get your law degree from Harvard, you might
as well not bother.
An individual instructor or a small local flight school may very well be doing an excellent
job in training people for a pilot certificate. Are there 'premier' flight academies out there?
Sure, the best in the USA bar none is FlightSafety in Vero Beach Florida. Many of our
instructors have graduated from that academy, and they are the de facto standard of
flight training in the USA, if not the world.
We are measuring ourselves by the standards they have set, and strive to meet or exceed that standard.



e)
Why don't you promise 'Job placement' or 'a guaranteed Interview'?
This has got to be the greatest hoax in aviation (actually we know of a few more).
Nobody can 'place' you into any jobs that 1) do not exist, 2) you do not qualify for,
3) thousands of unemployed pilots are waiting to fill.
And guaranteeing you an 'interview' does mean exactlly what? If you can be simply turned
down, what is the meaning of it?




[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the URL.
California Flight School

OK, now I am finished...ILS
 
Yankee one:
The answer is staring you right in the face. Under where it says “threads” and “posts” it states the total.

Flight Training / Threads / Posts / Last post
 
Just for what it's worth. Three more Pan Am instructors interviewed at Chataqua this past week and one just got the call this morning for a class date at the end of March. It seems to me that the Ace contract seems to be living up to it's name. So, I guess to answer the question of this post, if you stick with Pan Am they do deliver in the end.
 
no chit blow... like I said, if you actually read my post. The claim was to the total number of negative posts. I've don't see that "under where it says “threads” and “posts” it states the total.

Flight Training / Threads / Posts / Last post "
 
[ QUOTE ]
The actual Pan Am students and instructors who are there (Panamguy and Pilot, Turkey, PureIMC, Pinot, etc.) have good things to say about Pan Am.

[/ QUOTE ]

E7B, I think you may have outed yourself...Can we assume that you now admit that you are not a student or instructor at the school. If not, what is your function and why did you find it neccessary to pretend you were a student. Your credibility is zero if you entered this debate with the intent to deceive other users. Those of us who have experienced Pan Am generally have no problem with the instruction, it was in my opinion extremely good. However, we do have a problem with the underhand, unprofessional and frankly shady business practices and policies of the non-aviator side of the company. Please don't paint all ex-Pan Am students as failures because we didn't stay with the program, most of us are finding considerable success without Pan Am in our lives.
 
Panampilot,
Chautauqua has hired Every instructor they have interviewed from Safety. 7 were hired in the last 6 weeks or so and 3 are waiting to hear. The key here is they didn't have to pay for ACE and Route flying ($15,000+)... Some had as little as 1200TT. Anyway, hey for what it is worth I think that is great they or at least one so far has been hired. Like I have said before I hope we all get hired real soon.

You know, it is unfortunate some think I am beating up the students and instructors at Pan-Am. I have met at least 25+ students and instructors from both FT. Pierce and Phoenix and they all seem like pretty nice guy's. I am just curious why people put up with their management? That is what this thread was about... ILS
 
How much time do these people who are interviewing with Chuataqua have?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Those of us who have experienced Pan Am generally have no problem with the instruction, it was in my opinion extremely good. However, we do have a problem with the underhand, unprofessional and frankly shady business practices and policies of the non-aviator side of the company. Please don't paint all ex-Pan Am students as failures because we didn't stay with the program, most of us are finding considerable success without Pan Am in our lives.


[/ QUOTE ]


AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been sayin that all along!!
By the way E7B, I think the haters out number the lovers on this board!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
The key here is they didn't have to pay for ACE and Route flying ($15,000+)...

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you're saying ILS. Yes we do Ace but we are also hired on as flight instructors within a month or two whereas Flight Safety grads have to wait up to a year to get hired on. I don't mean to nit pick, I'm just trying to show both sides of the coin. It sounds like both schools get us to where we want to be, just by different routes. Unlike other schools ie. ATA.
 
[ QUOTE ]
but we are also hired on as flight instructors within a month or two whereas Flight Safety grads have to wait up to a year to get hired on

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but isn't that because most students quit before they get that far and hence there's not a large supply of graduates wanting to instruct there?

I mean I could see that as an advantage if you can put up with all of PA's BS for that long. Nothing comes without a cost however.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You know, it is unfortunate some think I am beating up the students and instructors at Pan-Am. I have met at least 25+ students and instructors from both FT. Pierce and Phoenix and they all seem like pretty nice guy's. I am just curious why people put up with their management? That is what this thread was about... ILS

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, is FSA hiring CFIs right now? Do you know any other places hiring CFIs where one can make good money and get multi time? Maybe that's why people stick around.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The key here is they didn't have to pay for ACE and Route flying ($15,000+)...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but don't both programs cost about 55k? If the total cost is the same then what is the big deal? And if we are going to nitpick, why does FSA charge around $1500 for the student to fly what is basically MS Flight Simulator?

To answer some elses question the people getting interviews at Chitaqua have around 1200TT...
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yes but isn't that because most students quit before they get that far and hence there's not a large supply of graduates wanting to instruct there?

I mean I could see that as an advantage if you can put up with all of PA's BS for that long. Nothing comes without a cost however.




[/ QUOTE ]

I never once felt like I had to put up with Pan Am's so called bs. I focused on what I was working on at the time, did what I was told, and now I'm making $27,000 a year with buddies of mine getting picked up by the regionals left and right. I'm not complaining.
 
The MS lab is free. FSI is very careful with their Pro Forma quotes. They don't want people running over-budget because that's bad for business. The money for the MicroSoft lab is to have an instructor with you...$1500 is for 27 hours of your CFI sitting next to you. I do not know of ANYONE spending more than 3 or 4 hours with their CFI in there. That's one of the reasons people are generally underbudget here. I finished paying less than quoted price....pretty common if you prepare for your lessons. Now, my pilot shop purchases put me over, but that was my bad habit of not being able to walk by without buying another book....non-required books. But on training, I was underbudget.

Chunk
 
[ QUOTE ]
Now, my pilot shop purchases put me over, but that was my bad habit of not being able to walk by without buying another book....non-required books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that. I have too many damn gizmos and gadgets.
 
About the MS thing,
It is incorporated in the syllabus as a certain number of dual lessons, however the amount of time actually spent using it dual is up to the IP. If the concepts are understood by the student IP's cut it short. The sims are then availible to students (unlimited time) to use free of charge.
Honestly I haven't had a student where we have used even close to 1/2 of the MS time in the syllabus. (You are only charged for what you do!)
 
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