Why do people attend Pan-Am?

[casaosa]

I have read most of the recent posts on PAIFA. First off, yes I work there. And most of you will know who I am because of my sign in name. Oh well, I don't think I can get fired for voicing my opinions can I??? Therefore, there is no way I am going to persume to think I can answer any of the questions posted, except maybe one by Doug awhile ago in ref to why noone from there has written. And that in itself would only be my assumptions. To a certain extent I agree with alot of what the "students" say, but again, that is only their side. I also agree there are "management" problems. Believe me, I have come to learn that although there is an "open door" policy as soon as the door closes on your way out, so do your ideas, complaints, suggestions...if they were even heard in the first place. It's frustrating but now MY decision to not even try for change in some areas.
I take total offense to whoever wrote that everyone that worked there did so for unethical reasons and didn't care. Or however it was phrased. Sorry, but a few of us really care about the students and bend over backwards to work with you and make you feel at home.
Personnally, I have no clue what is going on there right now and I am there 5 days a week. The lack of communication is sad. But I do know that I have read a lot of non truths. The instructors right up to the chief flight instructor do care about the students and I don't believe it is for the monetary value. Your all in the same industry. You all do want to see the next guy succeed including yourself. I don't feel there is backstabbing there or any undermining. If there are problems with your funds, like everyone has said, get a lawyer and let them do the job of digging into it.
The students who want to succeed in this industry and are at Pan Am, do so because of their integreity and willingness to work hard at accomplishing their goal. There are students who fly "no pun intended" thru the programs, faster than even PAIFA wants them too...then there are the ones who really don't care, who don't study, who really don't belong there. Everyone knows the Pan Am motto before they enroll. Hey folks, this is still the USA, we are all different, we can all still speak for ourselves, thank God, and we can still voice our opinions. Who chooses what we choose, noone, since hopefully we are all adults, and are making the steps we want to each day. If your unhappy there quit. Noone is forcing you to stay nor hopefully did anyone force you to join.
As for PAIFA going under....I don't think that is fact, but I can't say for sure....
I'll try to be as helpful as I can, as you guys know who know me....I don't usually beat around the bush!!!!
Fly safe.....

 

[CLR4ILS]

E7, what is your trip with this "class" BS. Is this all the game you have? You haven't provided any proof of your so called 30+ new hires. You say that all of these guy's who are from Pan-Am are imposters and they are making up their stories.
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There are no Pan Am students posting here. Nothing that is being posted has anything to do with reality at Pan Am. It’s entertaining anyways how you guys waste your time in your land of make believe.


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I think you need to check yourself into a hospital Obe One. You definately live in a whole other world than the rest of us. I am not sure what your reality looks like. Maybe you should lay off the Peter Pan flicks. My two year old little girl sees things clearer than you.

Why would anyone want to call Pan-Am's marketing anyway? So they can be lied to (30+ hires) and have all of their money taken after being suckered in? I am surprised there haven't been more law suits against Pan-Am for taking students money. You know your director of academics in Phoenix Brad Katherines is one of the main people responsible for all of the law suits and the end of the original Westwind Aviation Academy. He is also the one who made "ACE" mandatory when no one was signing up for it. If you do not believe me than check it out on the web through Phoenixes city court files. You people have some real winners running your school. It is a shame though, the school could be nice with all of those new facilities.

Best of luck to you in aviation (if you actually fly) because you will never make it as a marketing exec. ILS

 

[CLR4ILS]

Casaosa,
Finally, Some one from the administrative side with honesty.
I do have to say that your honesty shows...Whats that word??? Oh yea, "Class". You do sound like someone who cares about the students. It is unfortunate you can't get your message across to the management. I only have one opinion about your post.
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If there are problems with your funds, like everyone has said, get a lawyer and let them do the job of digging into it.


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The students should not have to deal with lawyers. I have to say that I have NEVER had to wonder about my money nor, have I ever felt like I was being screwed out of my money at Flight Safety. That is a good feeling that every student (paying customer) should enjoy.

Just curious, Why did Pan-Am lose their 141 program again? It wouldn't have to do with how much the Chief Pilot cared about the students would it? I am assuming he cared enough to make sure they were prepared for their checkrides right? ILS

 

[panampilot]

Why do you think Pan Am lost their 141 program? I know of at least 4 different students who are currently working on their ratings using the 141 program.

 

[casaosa]

First off, I am not admin.....just another lonely peon but a peon who can say they love their job!!!! And yes, I do care. I don't think I ever met a wider, nicer range of people than I have since meeting and working with both the students and instructors at Pan Am.
As for the lawyers, I agree, the students shouldn't have to get lawyers involved, but if they reach that brick wall that so many are complaining about, what is the step?? Let's go to chain in command....next move, but quit whining and make the move that you feel needs to be made if your questions aren't being answered. I've long given up on making any changes where I am concerned within the "rat race" there, but that is my decision, you will never hear me complain about it. My decision, my choice. Period.
As for the 141, I don't know if it has been cancelled, if so why, if in fact it's still in place. If you want me to ask those in the know or if someone else our here can answer that, please take on the expertise!!!
As for the Chief Pilot having something to do with it and caring or not for his students. I believe he does. I also believe he believes in his instructors 100% and leaves the decision to them as to weather or not a student is ready for stage check or check ride. I feel he knows where each and every student is in their program and how they are doing but again, trusts his instructors enought to let them make the final decision as to what to do with them. I also feel his door is wide open if any of them have any questions concerning any such student and will offer quidance. But again, remember, he is management and not there to babysit the students, he again, has enough faith in his instructors to do that, and I believe they do!!!
Hope this helps....and I hope this didn't go thru twice cause I lost the first response

 

[bumflip]

Post deleted by Doug Taylor

 

[casaosa]

Then Mr. Blah blah blah Martin, why don't you go somewhere where you see wha wha wha wha wha instead???? don't be a baby, grow up and if you have something worthwhile to say, say it, this is a forum not a playpen.

 

[robair73]

Uh, blah.

 

[E7B]

I’m going to take the kumbayahh advice and try to get along with CLR4. In order to do that I need to get on his level and see where he is coming from so we can relate.

First, I will go to the Flight Safety forum and post a question as to why anyone would attend that school. I will point out how expensive it is, the long CFI wait list taking potential years off of an airline career, and all the management problems. I might bring up how their marketing department is currently lying to prospective students telling them there is no CFI wait.

Now bear in mind I’ve never actually received any instruction there personally. But I have taken a tour and know some people who go there and some who didn’t make it through the program. That would make me an authority on the subject of anything related to Flight Safety.

After that, I will just start making things up as I go to try and make it look as bad as possible. Actually, come to think of it, if I did that I would be a Jackass. Never mind…

 

[JoeBlow]

The chief flight instructor at the Phoenix location is no longer there. They are currently looking for a replacement.

 

[chunk75]

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I will point out how expensive it is, the long CFI wait list taking potential years off of an airline career, and all the management problems. I might bring up how their marketing department is currently lying to prospective students telling them there is no CFI wait.




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I bet Pan Am is more expensive....especially when you look at the long term. Y'all pay for ACE...if you instruct @ FSI, you'll get FMS and turbine transition training free! Oh, and it's a Level D so you can log it. Oh, and you'll get it when you become competitive for the regionals so it's fresh and makes some sense rather than being a private pilot who should be studying weather or aerodynamics trying to figure out FMS functions that are *far* from the reality of their current situation.

Marketing folks here are students....not the slimeball used carsalesmen used by other schools. I know many of them personally and they do not lie about the wait list. Plus, on the tour, you can talk to anyone at anytime. Nothing is hidden.


What management problems? To the best of my knowledge, no one is suing FSI. In fact, I haven't heard of anyone every doing that. Know why? Our management and admin folks treat us like *customers* and *human beings*....even you, E7B, have to admit PAIFA doesn't have the best customer service record. Just look at these boards. You don't see guys over at FSI bitchin'...do ya?


I am trying to stay out of this stuff, but you flat out BS'd about FSI.
Chunk

 

[E7B]

I think you might have missed my point Chunk, please allow me to clarify what I was saying. Here was the post:
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I’m going to take the kumbayahh advice and try to get along with CLR4. In order to do that I need to get on his level and see where he is coming from so we can relate.

First, I will go to the Flight Safety forum and post a question as to why anyone would attend that school. I will point out how expensive it is, the long CFI wait list taking potential years off of an airline career, and all the management problems. I might bring up how their marketing department is currently lying to prospective students telling them there is no CFI wait.

Now bear in mind I’ve never actually received any instruction there personally. But I have taken a tour and know some people who go there and some who didn’t make it through the program. That would make me an authority on the subject of anything related to Flight Safety.

After that, I will just start making things up as I go to try and make it look as bad as possible. Actually, come to think of it, if I did that I would be a Jackass. Never mind…
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In reality (tough nut to crack around here) CLR4 is going onto another schools forum and BS’ing about them. I was saying I wouldn’t do that, ergo the Jackass implication, and quite probably a slimeball marketing tactic to which you referred. I’m glad you are also an expert on our ACE program, that’s nice to see from people who have never sat in on an ACE ground or sim ride. And yes, I do see people bitch about FSI at your forums. Thank goodness they’re not Pan Am people though, it’s great that they show more class than that.

 

[chunk75]

The FSI forum has more threads and posts than any other school's. However, the number of negative posts is still lower (not just percentage....total posts) than anyone elses. The only posts that can be considered negative were recently posted out of frustration over the industry's downturn and have little or nothing to do with what's actually going on in Vero.

FSI isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than any other school out there, *ESPECIALLY* in the customer service arena.

Chunk

 

[robair73]

EVERYONE!!! Enough already. Let's show a little class

 

[JoeBlow]

Did someone say lets smoke a little grass.

 

[derg]

[ QUOTE ]
Did someone say lets smoke a little grass.

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Ack!

 

[JoeBlow]

Just a joke, but sorry.

 

[JoeBlow]

When I saw the previous post I had a flashback from the movie Duce Bigolo. The scene where he went to that big fat lady’s house and said there must be a mistake and she says did you say steak.

 

[E7B]

Of course not Chunk, as is evident from the title of this very thread, FS guys go to other school forums and talk trash. Meanwhile, they go to their own and become cheerleaders. While the FS guys make up the majority of the population here, that all makes perfect sense.

It’s also one of the main reasons pushing the non-reality factor in here. The actual Pan Am students and instructors who are there (Panamguy and Pilot, Turkey, PureIMC, Pinot, etc.) have good things to say about Pan Am. Earlier in the thread, Casaosa wrote a couple posts with honesty and integrity dealing with how things “really” are at Pan Am. Of course the bashers who don’t deal in reality could only refer to these truths and “blah”. They like their fiction.

Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes. And yes, the last couple “class” references were in jest. In case you didn’t get it, I’ll throw one in again – class.

 

[Guest]

I attend Pan Am and can say that there are a lot of horror stories. I used to really get wrapped up in other peoples drama and wind up upset. I would hate to see the blue and yellow PA logo as I approached the school. The thing is, for the most part, none of these things ever happened to me.
I can't tell you that the quality is any better here than anywhere else, I have never been anywhere else, but I can say that i am satisfied with the service that i recieved. It is more expensive than quoted and is going to take a lot longer than said. luckly i have found a way to make it. there are a lot of people who aren't so lucky as me. Yes, i was upset about this for a while, but in the grand scheme of things it is not that big of a deal.
I can personally attest that there are a lot of instructors that have left and are leaving DVT to the airlines. I could list the names of the ones i know of personally and it would add up to about 12 in the past 2 and a half months. I am sure that there were some that i didn't know about.