Why do people attend Pan-Am?

[Tired]

[ QUOTE ]
I never once felt like I had to put up with Pan Am's so called bs. I focused on what I was working on at the time, did what I was told, and now I'm making $27,000 a year with buddies of mine getting picked up by the regionals left and right. I'm not complaining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. I am easily on track to make over $30k this year, and typically fly over 80 hours each month. My buddies at FBOs are getting half the time and much less then half the pay.

What is the quoted cost of Pan Am program vs. FSA program? Aren't they almost the same? Yeah, I was mistaken about the MS lab deal, I was just throwing it out there as something I'd heard without the facts to back it up. Not like anyone else here has every dont that.

 

[JoeBlow]

Isn’t Pan Am making their flight instructors that were hired from the outside do ACE and pay for it for half price or something like that?

 

[Tired]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn’t Pan Am making their flight instructors that were hired from the outside do ACE and pay for it for half price or something like that?

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They sent around a memo to that effect, but then just like most stuff it never really happened. Some CFIs took ACE, some didn't. The CFIs that didn't take it have not been affected. It's a dumb idea, most of the outside CFIs will be gone soon. If they want to increase the hiring mins after bring people onboard they should train them for free.

 

[casaosa]

Wow you guys....I wish I could remember everything I wanted to responde to but can't...days off!!!
First, Pan Am Pilot has it right, stay out of the b.s. i.e. mgt. at PAIFA and you can get along just fine. Do what your there to do, become a pilot, don't get involved in the politics, unless somehow it concerns you. Yes, they have had students quit but again, in my opinion it is because PA's expectations for their students were too much for the students to handle. PA's program is not cut out for everyone and I think they would be the first to tell any potential student that. I've seen a few students that I felt should have washed out a long time ago but their buckling down and flying right.
Unsat...said exactly this....
E7B (?) thanks for sticking up for me and what does it matter to everyone if this person is or isn't part of PA???? I told you guys right up I was, it doesn't matter to me, I have nothing to hide, but maybe this person does, like job security. You know that mgt. from PA are reading these sites. It's been the talk off and on for months.
And for whoever said that not taking ACE doesn't affect the instructors, that I will have to disagree with. It does. Maybe not alot but I know of one senior instructor there that doesn't have any students and blames it on the fact they didn't do the ace program. This may or may not be the truth. Just what they told me.
Again to end....stay out of the politics, do what you are there to do, work hard and you'll accomplish your goals..

 

[Guest]

Casaosa, are you in DVT or FPR?

You know what would be nice. if you didn't have to wait for stagechecks. these things take a day here and a day there. IF you bust something minor it takes a day to rt with your instructor then a day to get your stagecheck rt then a day for 8710 then a day or up to 5 days for your checkride. Meanwhile you miss your class date and are sitting on your A** for a couple of weeks. (I guess you could fly the next rating but then it feels disjointed.) I think the system screams inefficiency for the student. There are too many people involved in the process with all this layered paperwork and admin time. I believe that they could streamline the system a bit.
I would like to be scheduled for a mission with my instructor the same day as the stagecheck incase an rt is necessary (at least as an option) plus take the stagecheck retake the next day. I also would like to do the 8710 at the stagecheck(it isn't really comnplex. make a checklist for each rating)and finally have checkrides on call when i want them.
Am i a hard to please customer or what? can you tell i want to get this done with already? It is just that the stagechecks, 8710's and checkride, processes has cost me a ton of time.

 

[expendableone]

Now your gettin it, the "shaft." Smellin the coffee, the sooner you realize it the better! "Process has cost me a ton of time," and about the money, better yet don't think about that. Good luck.

 

[Guest]

i don't look at it as getting the shaft. it isn't as if they are purposely doing this to screw me. it is just one thing that i feel can improve. overall i am pleased with the system and the quality of pilots.
i don't think the school has ever shafted me and everytime i speak up, in a non confrontational way, i get serviced the best that the person i am dealing with can. Plus i am always polite and they are always polite in return. So please don't look at my previous post as an opportunity to "Slam Pan Am" because that is not what i was doing. I am at paifa because i like it there.

 

[scheiss]

Where did Mr Boles go?

 

[casaosa]

Unsat...I'm in FPR, I thought that was obvious. I know the frustration when you do have to wait for the stage checks or 8710 or whatever. Believe me, I have heard this more than once from students and I wish I could help. The only thing I can say is if you aren't getting what you feel you deserve, need, whatever....do the whole chain of command thing. If your instructor doesn't help, go to the Asst. Chief, the Chief, the whole shot, right up to the Ivory Tower. Remember, this is your education, your money and if you aren't satified with what is happening, instead of just bitching and moaning, control your own destiny. The frustration is everywhere sometimes, route fliers calling in sick so they screw their copilot, students, instructors, pretty much everyone is depending on someone else and that cause frustration on alot of levels. Hang in there guys.....this is life!!!!

 

[Guest]

Not bitching and moaning just venting because i want to be done in a bad way. It's like waiting for your birthday when you are 5!

 

[casaosa]

That wasn't meant at you directly unsat.....please don't take it that way, just a general comment because it seems to me a lot of people just like to hear themselves complain!!!

 

[PaFlyer]

I am a former ATA student who is of course wrapped up in that whole mess. Anyway, from the moment the school went under, and I mean within 18 hours the Pan Am recruiter was in the parking lot like a damn ambulance chaser handing out cards while we were allowed a few moments in the building to pick up our files. Recently we were invited to attend a Pan Am meeting / sales pitch at Orl... this is what I obsereved. First of all the literature states times and prices are based on 45 hours for the private. This costs $10,077.20 Wow, as if thats not bad enough it goes on to say that the average flight time logged in private is 59 hours. Of course these are not gaurenteed times and if it runs over you pay. So along with the 10K you can expect an additional charge of at least 14 hours @ $1605. to rent the Archer plus addition instructor time. So basically their own brocure contridicts their sales pitch. Then we were told when we get our cfi's we become instructors if we are worthy, I don't blame them not everybody is, anyhow there wasn't a waiting list for that... hmmm. We were then told we would instruct until we had 800-1000 hours to be eligible for job placement assistance, well if you get your instructor ratings in 300 you have to build between 500-700 hours. We were told this can be done in 4-6 months. The question was then asked if it was possible to instruct 100 hours per month and the overwelming majority including their own instructors agreed that this is probrably not possible. Hmmm... If I can't get 100 hous per month instructing how is it possible to build 500-700 hours in 4-6 months? There were other inconsistancies but this is when I and many others stopped listening. Lets not put another black mark on big flight schools guys. Oh and there wasn't a waiting list to go to the airlines, everyone had been hired so if any of you guys are waiting around at Pan Am you may want to say something, I think they forgot about you.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

I have held my tongue on the whole ATA mess, out of respect for my fellow aviation students. But when a former ATA student starts attacking Pan Am, I thought I should speak up. I can understand that PaFlyer is probably upset at the entire flight training community.

For everyone who thinks Pan Am and its administrators are the evil spawn of Satan himself, you need to put things into perspective. When you have a school like ATA spewing bold faced lies right up to the hour it closed, I think the problems most people encountered at Pan Am, were petty in comparison.

It is possible to have a very good experience at Pan Am, and I and many other classmates are living proof of it.

The Turk.

 

[HankHill]

[ QUOTE ]
I have held my tongue on the whole ATA mess, out of respect for my fellow aviation students. But when a former ATA student starts attacking Pan Am, I thought I should speak up. I can understand that PaFlyer is probably upset at the entire flight training community.

For everyone who thinks Pan Am and its administrators are the evil spawn of Satan himself, you need to put things into perspective. When you have a school like ATA spewing bold faced lies right up to the hour it closed, I think the problems most people encountered at Pan Am, were petty in comparison.

It is possible to have a very good experience at Pan Am, and I and many other classmates are living proof of it.

The Turk.

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Turk. You are a Pro. Keep the updates coming...

 

[casaosa]

I have to agree Turk....at least Pan Am's doors are still open!!! At least the students there are still getting trained even if they are being "ripped off" as so many of them think!!! You know you guys, just out of curosity, thought here.....yes, there are CFI's waiting for more students at FPR, but could it be that less people are getting into the aviation industry??? I really don't have a clue, that is why I am asking.