Who likes PBS?

gtpilot

Well-Known Member
And I don't mean the tv network. Our MEC recently decided that preferential bidding could be good if the 'right vendor' is used, so we're entering further talks with the company. Does anyone out there have this so called 'right vendor'? I'm at the bottom of the totem pole so I'm shot in either system, but looking ahead, I'd like to be a little more educated - for now most of what I hear is negative or heresy.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Is this a trick question???

I think I got it.....Shrewd Airline Managers and the top 10% of pilots!!
 

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
Naw it's legit.

You're fimiliar with CAL's PBS system, which is horrible.

Delta has PBS, but it's a completely different setup. My understanding is that if the union has control of PBS, it can be a great system. If management (and especially CAL management) has control of it, then get the lube out.
 

OldTownPilot

Well-Known Member
....And those between 70% and 85% that get a crappy line instead of reserve.

The old man is in that group. But when he moves up 20 numbers in the base, PBS will be a pile of doo.

Open time vanishes.
Junior manning is put onto the lines in the construction phase
a 7 day vacation is just that, 7 days *24 hours
Award transparency goes out the window
If you are flying with a great crew it is just for one trip


There is a reason that over 80% of the pilots at CAL can be Captains.
 

Trip7

Well-Known Member
Naw it's legit.

You're fimiliar with CAL's PBS system, which is horrible.

Delta has PBS, but it's a completely different setup. My understanding is that if the union has control of PBS, it can be a great system. If management (and especially CAL management) has control of it, then get the lube out.
:yeahthat:Spot on. But most pilots will cringe and say hell no when asked about PBS without even considering the options.

On the other hand, ASA is already massively overstaffed, PBS could be the kiss of death for many of us junior peeps....
 

higney85

Property of Scheduling
Here is how I view PBS at my current company. I came into PBS (from bidding hard lines) at a mid-seniority level and now am on the higher end of FO seniority for a disclaimer. PBS "in theory" is great. It works awesome when you know what the company is putting in, when you are senior, and when you have bid enough times to figure out what "preferences" give you what you want. Just like anything though the contractual language makes all the difference in the world. Training events and vacations can turn your month ugly. My month of november cost me 4 days off and a few weekend days (normally don't work weekends) due to recurrent ground and sim in november. Here training is "assigned" so PBS builds around that. I have RGT on a tues/wed and a sim at 5am on a sat morning with thanksgiving turned my bid upside down. Restrictions on vacation and training- that could be added AFTER the bid and any conflict results in a dropped trip with pay protection would be helpful in the QOL department. Having to bend over backwards and mess up your entire month for the company's recurrent training is quite inconvenient and makes vacations difficult to bid around as well. It is good to fly with different people and work specific days or hold off specific days each month.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Paper bidding here gave us WAAAAY more control over the QoL issues than PBS does. Ken's already pointed out the bad ones. I had vacation last month, and I got a whopping 15 days off for the whole month with vacation. It even counted two days on part of my vacation as normal days off. With paper bidding, I coulda strung those days together and gotten close to 14 in a ROW rather than the 7 I wound up with.

Training is the real kicker. Back when we had paper bidding, you could bid a line with a trip right smack on top of when you were scheduled training. They'd buy you off the trip since training took precedence. So, if you had 3 days of training, you could bid a line with a 20 hour 3 day on the days you were in training and get paid 20 hours. With PBS, you get 3.75x3 no matter what since the training goes into the system BEFORE it builds your line.

The way our PBS is set up, if we could go back to paper bidding tomorrow, I'd punch my grandmother in the face to make it happen.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
It screws ya on vacation and training months...

Other then that i like it. I like to be able to pick pairings i want, for example those with good overnites and 2-3 legs per day. Its good if you're an FO so you dont get stuck with a ######bag captain the whole month, and infact you can even avoid completly the ones you dont like. Its great for cherrypickin overnites in your hometown or cities where you have friends or one of your 8 wives.
 

MusketeerMan

Well-Known Member
It screws ya on vacation and training months...

Other then that i like it. I like to be able to pick pairings i want, for example those with good overnites and 2-3 legs per day. Its good if you're an FO so you dont get stuck with a ######bag captain the whole month, and infact you can even avoid completly the ones you dont like. Its great for cherrypickin overnites in your hometown or cities where you have friends or one of your 8 wives.
:yeahthat:

I too like PBS for the most part here at RAH. Next month is a training month for me, but I didn't end up getting screwed...Thanskgiving off and got the daily value trips I wanted...even get to do a LAX trip!! I can count the # of times when I was a little ticked off, but most of it was me not really knowing how to bid. It's great for getting specific cities or trips.
 

joliet

New Member
Why did this SteveC guy edit my post?

It was linked to a huge thread on what was wrong with PBS in the APA pilots minds?

Was it some sort of, don't link to other websites here because we are too cool for school?

Looking at his profile, he isn't even involved with airlines, so what is his beef? Does he even understand what this topic is about?

So lame, censorship over nothing. Wonderful.


Nevermind, here is the reason when I click on the link!

Post Comparison
Definitely not APA Pilots!

- http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=118129 + <removed link to another forum>
 

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
Why did this SteveC guy edit my post?

It was linked to a huge thread on what was wrong with PBS in the APA pilots minds?

Was it some sort of, don't link to other websites here because we are too cool for school?

Looking at his profile, he isn't even involved with airlines, so what is his beef? Does he even understand what this topic is about?

So lame, censorship over nothing. Wonderful.


Nevermind, here is the reason when I click on the link!

Steve could be one of the most useful people at this website, he edited your post because Doug doesn't like folks cross linking to other forums.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Like Train said, the post was edited b/c it cross-links to another forum. Now if you've got the same info, just not linked to another forum, I'm sure it'll stay. So, not censorship, more of a housecleaning.

Problem with PBS here is, yeah, you can pick individual pairings, but you generally have to be fairly senior to get the ones you want. Which is fair, I guess. The people I hear with real horror stories are the commuters. If their preferences don't match with any pairings left after the people ahead of them get their awards, the system just ignores their wishes. Another issue with PBS is you almost have to be a math major to get it to work out right. Some of the guys say (and I tend to agree) that it gets around seniority sometimes. If you put in for max days off and get 12 days off when by a fluke someone junior to you gets 14 days off, I'd say it's a broken set up. We had a situation a couple of months ago where someone 3 from the bottom got a high-speed line where 15 people senior to him got awarded reserve lines. The only reason he got the high-speed line was b/c he had a sim that month, so by some mathematical fluke, the system awarded him the line.
 

higney85

Property of Scheduling
Beyond training and vacation months I like PBS. I get my 3-day trips and can bid to avoid deadheads, long sits, etc and still hold off weekends. Paper bids worked but there were times where you needed 2 seperate days off in a month and you could not make that happen, with PBS you can ONCE and only ONCE you get some seniority. On the bottom of the list you get scraps.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Beyond training and vacation months I like PBS. I get my 3-day trips and can bid to avoid deadheads, long sits, etc and still hold off weekends. Paper bids worked but there were times where you needed 2 seperate days off in a month and you could not make that happen, with PBS you can ONCE and only ONCE you get some seniority. On the bottom of the list you get scraps.
In that case, be glad you missed the upgrade train. I'm on 10 days off with reserve for who knows how long. Apparently, they can do whatever you want to your reserve schedule, too. Back in the paper bidding days, you could bid PM or AM reserve. Now, it's just a "request," so they can change it at will. I've already had a couple of my reserve days changed for the end of November. They used to try pulling the "swap home reserves for airport reserves" crap 3 weeks out until people started waving the contract in their faces.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
In that case, be glad you missed the upgrade train. I'm on 10 days off with reserve for who knows how long. Apparently, they can do whatever you want to your reserve schedule, too. Back in the paper bidding days, you could bid PM or AM reserve. Now, it's just a "request," so they can change it at will. I've already had a couple of my reserve days changed for the end of November. They used to try pulling the "swap home reserves for airport reserves" crap 3 weeks out until people started waving the contract in their faces.
Yeah, its kind of messed up how that is. Here, even if I bid AM reserve I'm not guaranteed to have it. I mean, they'll award it to me but then later on I could be "reassigned" to PM reserve.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
Examples

Soon I will use this system.

Can anyone paste an example of the bid that they usually use for PBS? I have never used the layering system that it features and many people say the first few months using it can be challenging as you get to know what works and what doesn't at the seniority you bid at.

Thanks.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I'm not buying into PBS...especially at regionals. I agree that part of CALs problem stems from the POS contract they have. Additionally the lack of transparency is questionable. I'm sure the company looks out for themselves first and you second. Plus if you have a good trading system, that could go "bye bye."

I'd like to know what you would get in return for such a cost savings measure. I can think of few things more critical in our pilot careers as our bidding for schedules. You better be giving me a much improved system to take that control out of my hands and into the likes of some scheduler.
 
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