The math for quitting FedEx to go to United

[Autothrust Blue]

I remember... it must have been sometime in '08ish... I was on the UAL bus in ORD, just slogging it to the F-trash gates for some 30 leg trip and a UAL FO decided that it was the appropriate time to rant/yell at me that it's because of "people like me" that he's being furloughed a 2nd time. It was a very surreal experience as my career trajectory wasn't stellar. (1 Furlough/1 Bankruptsy, & 1 airline that went out of business at that point...) I'm sure that I had a pretty dumb look on my face that said, "Dude, what the heck, I'm just trying to go to work."

I had an American pilot get into my face about flying “his” regional jet for $8 an hour (it was $27, thanks…woohoo) when I was on a hotel van in the Eagle days. Never mind it was his stupid scope clause that made it so I made so little and had no real shot at career progression except for the abstract promise of a flow someday.

 

[podrick]

Not like the ones mentioned post 9/11 and the 2008 GFC. These 2020 ones were barely anything. It is NOT the same thing. Most of these guys were in far better positions barely 3-6 months later.

Yea I really don’t think you read my post, you’re just arguing with yourself at this point. I said in my post it’s nowhere near the same thing.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Yea I really don’t think you read my post, you’re just arguing with yourself at this point. I said in my post it’s nowhere near the same thing.

*Sigh*

Here’s the exact quote:

“Just pointing out that the “this generation couldn’t handle a furlough” argument isn’t accurate.”



No, it is accurate. You are talking about a SMALL subset of folks at Compass, TSA who got picked up within 3-6 months at bigger, better paying gigs.

Couldn’t handle a furlough means the days when the big boys stop their hiring. Cause it’s that bad. AND. There’s really nowhere else to go. That happened momentarily in 2020 but then swiftly picked back up in 2021. Some smaller places were hiring late 2020. And for those people that were affected, by summer 2020 they got $600 weekly fed on top of state unemployment. Flew with a guy who flew for a small shop in Alaska, his furlough was 3 months. He called it a mini vacation with his kids where he made almost more on unemployment.


More than half the current pilots on 121 lists were hired on/after 2014. Of that, a fairly decent portion STARTED at their first 121 gig in 2014 or later. For this latter group, they have no idea what real pain is, have never truly seen the bad times. And yes, most of them wouldn’t be able to mentally process handling a furlough en mass. The days of PSP are gone. Don’t believe me, watch the next real Aviation downturn and see for yourself.

 

[ERfly]

I remember... it must have been sometime in '08ish... I was on the UAL bus in ORD, just slogging it to the F-trash gates for some 30 leg trip and a UAL FO decided that it was the appropriate time to rant/yell at me that it's because of "people like me" that he's being furloughed a 2nd time. It was a very surreal experience as my career trajectory wasn't stellar. (1 Furlough/1 Bankruptsy, & 1 airline that went out of business at that point...) I'm sure that I had a pretty dumb look on my face that said, "Dude, what the heck, I'm just trying to go to work."

Ah yes...the late-2000s, early-2010s United pilots. Most miserable group of people I ever encountered (and I worked for AA!). I lost count of how many times I was verbally abused when trying to Jumpseat or the times I was accosted in the terminal because I got the UAX Jumpseat first. I was so tempted to say, "No one held a gun to your head and made you sign away your scope. I'm just trying to do my job, build hours and get the hell out of here!"

 

[podrick]

*Sigh*

Here’s the exact quote:

“Just pointing out that the “this generation couldn’t handle a furlough” argument isn’t accurate.”



No, it is accurate. You are talking about a SMALL subset of folks at Compass, TSA who got picked up within 3-6 months at bigger, better paying gigs.

Couldn’t handle a furlough means the days when the big boys stop their hiring. Cause it’s that bad. AND. There’s really nowhere else to go. That happened momentarily in 2020 but then swiftly picked back up in 2021. Some smaller places were hiring late 2020. And for those people that were affected, by summer 2020 they got $600 weekly fed on top of state unemployment. Flew with a guy who flew for a small shop in Alaska, his furlough was 3 months. He called it a mini vacation with his kids where he made almost more on unemployment.


More than half the current pilots on 121 lists were hired on/after 2014. Of that, a fairly decent portion STARTED at their first 121 gig in 2014 or later. For this latter group, they have no idea what real pain is, have never truly seen the bad times. And yes, most of them wouldn’t be able to mentally process handling a furlough en mass. The days of PSP are gone. Don’t believe me, watch the next real Aviation downturn and see for yourself.

No one’s doubting or arguing how difficult it was. The obsession with wanting younger generations to suffer is just weird…

 

[podrick]

*Sigh*

Here’s the exact quote:

“Just pointing out that the “this generation couldn’t handle a furlough” argument isn’t accurate.”

Certainly nowhere near the lost decade, and no doubt all affected probably had a pretty soft landing

Again, I don’t what you’re getting so worked up about or who you think you’re arguing with. I agreed with what you’re saying in my post.

“Ok grandma let’s get you back to bed”

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No one’s doubting or arguing how difficult it was. The obsession with wanting younger generations to suffer is just weird…

It was mostly said in jest, that I wanted to see Age 67 just to see the young generation get owned. As in, not serious.


And EVEN if age 67 passed, it wouldn't even a big deal. But I could see meltdowns, along the lines of oh my god now I'm stuck as FO for 2 yrs and can't upgrade to a higher salary! Nevermind he's been 6 months at the company. Enjoy it, enjoy these times - they won't last. Get a seniority number ASAP, hang on to it, and make wise decisions.


I think I've shared this story before, but I'll say it again - I once had a FO say I was the first CA he flew with who didn't have toys. He asked about houses (with a 's' as in owning more than 1), boats, planes, motorcycles, or otherwise large toys. I said I had none of that. Not having toys, I took that as a compliment.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

You do have a new Bronco though...

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You do have a new Bronco though...

True. But a Base with steelies. $36,880 plus taxes and fees.


Could I have found a WildTrak version? Sure. But that’s $60k+ and unnecessary when most of my driving is to the LAX employee lot, dropping kids to school, and shopping/grocery.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

No one’s doubting or arguing how difficult it was. The obsession with wanting younger generations to suffer is just weird…

It is weird. You are also not wrong. I fly with a lot of new FOs they have great opportunities and great attitudes. I am convinced the make-or-break moment for my airline will come when the pilot group and management either shed the dogma that we have to make the new young pilot suffer like we did or we continue on making everyone's lives miserable. Getting rid of this outdated attitude means our airline will grow and we will all succeed. Failing to do so: the airline fails.

 

[///AMG]

I think I've shared this story before, but I'll say it again - I once had a FO say I was the first CA he flew with who didn't have toys. He asked about houses (with a 's' as in owning more than 1), boats, planes, motorcycles, or otherwise large toys. I said I had none of that. Not having toys, I took that as a compliment.

I like this. We haven't had debt, other than a mortgage, for many years now. I recently bought the wife a 2023 Honda Pilot, and I felt like it was really insane and extravagant. But it is really really nice. It is the "Touring" version, and it has all the options. And we got a lot more for our trade in than I expected, which made it nicer. But I still think, like, how much more that money invested would be worth to us in 20-30 yrs. I guess you just have to live a little though, if owning a really not unique mid size SUV is "living"

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I like this. We haven't had debt, other than a mortgage, for many years now. I recently bought the wife a 2023 Honda Pilot, and I felt like it was really insane and extravagant. But it is really really nice. It is the "Touring" version, and it has all the options. And we got a lot more for our trade in than I expected, which made it nicer. But I still think, like, how much more that money invested would be worth to us in 20-30 yrs. I guess you just have to live a little though, if owning a really not unique mid size SUV is "living"

For sure. That’s a great choice. I’ll be buying an SUV next year when her lease goes back. Nothing crazy expensive, but a decent one well equipped and safe for the family.

But it’ll be cash, no loans / debt. Like you, the only debt I want is the mortgage. And even that I plan to pay off in 5-7 yrs.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Same. We just have the mortgage. I bought my wife a used Subaru Ascent a few years ago. That's our "nice" car. I still drive an 05' Pontiac.

I bought my son a used Chevy Volt when he started driving.

My only extravagance has been private school for the kid, and I was in a flying club for a few years. But this is his last year of private school and I quit the club during the pandemic. Now we are just squirling as much money away as we can for retirement and a little international travel.

You get furloughed a few times and you realize debt isn't your friend. So we just made the decision not to carry any.

 

[DE727UPS]

I just bought a plane. Gawd, you'd think I'd have learned by now...

 

[killbilly]

I just bought a plane. Gawd, you'd think I'd have learned by now...

pics!

 

[WacoFan]

pics!

Cosign @DE727UPS - love to see the new machine.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

if owning a really not unique mid size SUV is "living"

Not the same as owning a truck but...this came immediately to mind.

Note: I want a society where you don't need to have such a contraption in order to live a decent life, and I can't blame Americans for having to react to the fact that the automobile has ruled since the '50s. I do blame them for furthering policy that entrenches car dependency, however.

You get furloughed a few times and you realize debt isn't your friend. So we just made the decision not to carry any.

Used responsibly and not frivolusly debt is fine. (I have a separate savings account I call the Frivolity Fund.) I just got a HELOC because it's time to do some renovations at the house and because doing so improved my cash position. I could pay out of pocket, especially once I'm off first year pay, but I decided I'd rather borrow (and repay ahead of schedule).

Though I also am still driving my RJ copilot car ('14 Impreza hatch, paid for since 2019) and have no intention of buying a new grocery-getter anytime soon; see above commentary about car-free or car-light life.

I forget what his name is, but there's a financial "influencer" who thinks all debt is automatically bad. It isn't. Sometimes you can't get along without it. Sometimes it is the right tool (as student loans were for me in graduate school). Turns out some of the poorest people I know are adherents of his ideology too.

Though I'll admit auto loans are (expletive) stupid.

 

[DE727UPS]

This is the only photo I have. Sorry. It's nothing special. Very stock 75 Cherokee 140/160. Garmin 430 WAAS. 2300 hours on the engine. 35K. I knew it had been well taken care of the last 5 years. Figured even if don't fly it much for a while I couldn't go wrong at that price knowing the background of the plane. Eventually would like to use it for IFR training and commuting between homes in WA. It's still running great and on an oil analysis program. Day VFR only over flat land with it since flying big jets made me a little scared of where I'll go in single engine planes. I'm a wimp.

 

[MikeD]

Day VFR only over flat land with it since flying big jets made me a little scared of where I'll go in single engine planes. I'm a wimp.

I mean, in fairness, you get used to doing stuff a certain way for so long, then going back to older ways will just seem unfamiliar and hence, uncomfortable. Nothing wimpy about that.

The flip side of the coin is someone like me, who is too dumb to realize when I need to be scared, and still flies a single engine helo low level in middle of nowhere darkness, low Wx, and into mountain terrain. At least getting paid for it, so there is that. Haha

 

[Skåning]

I just bought a plane

Baller!