What would you do in the case of a disgruntled examiner?

[poser765]

Yowzas. Thats some long oral. Anything over 2 hours and there's gotta be a problem. Initial CFI excluded I'd say but even the type rides I've had the oral didn't go over 1.5 with coffee.
But way back in the early part of the 21st century, I took a commercial SEL ride with a guy that I'd flown with before and was quite a popular DE in C. FL. Halfway through a maneuver he announced that I had failed and I could continue yadda yadda yadda, I chose to end the ride and go back. I asked him to tell me specifically what I had done wrong as I was well inside PTS standards and the outcome was never in doubt. He quoted me that he had a personal limitation. I flipped out. My CFI flipped out when told as did the CP. Thankfully the Orlando FSDO agreed and pulled this guys status. Turns out I was not the only one. Guess he needed the money as he was on wife #3 and she was on the way out.

This is exactly why "teaching to the PTS level" is not a guarantee of a pass. However sharp your instruction, or prepared your student, if an examiner wants your student to bust...they will bust.

No student is ever 100%. Never. Regardless of how well he was instructed.

 

[mshunter]

If you teach to PTS standards or above, there should not be any reason for you to care which examiner you get. I look at the earliest possible time over a specific examiner.
I get the fact that DPE has a monetary interest to do a check ride over doing it with the FAA directly.
I would not have any issue with either, actually i just offer to send one of my guys with a new DPE who needs to have the FAA sit in on the check ride. I know my guy and he has no problem on either oral or practical part. And i don't doubt he would pass with any examiner.

I've sent more than a few off to a check ride, all of them better than PTS. I've had students fail. One failed because the stall horn was going off on a short field approach in a 150, which, if you are within the PTS, and fly it exactly how the PTS says, you will have to listen to it the whole way to the runway in a 150. He failed because the examiner was known for being timid of stalls. No one ever had to take it all the way to the break. My student, unbeknownst to me, was the "this is the last time, he had better not be a jerk, and do something stupid." He wasn't invited back.

In the OP's situation, you have no recourse with your employer. You do have recourse with the FAA, and the local FSDO. I'm not buying the 10 years ago story. I'd personally, now that you're fired, make an appointment with the local FSDO, and let them know what's going on. You could possibly open up Pandora's box, and find yourself in a 709 ride, but I see that as very unlikely.

Examiner's like this have the potential to ruin people's careers. Let the FSDO know.

 

[mrivc211]

One thing I would advise is if any oral goes past 3.5 - 4 hours, you should discontinue the checkride before flying the airplane.

NOBODY is capable of performing to their full potential after getting grilled for more than 4 hours. Basic mental fatigue will put even the best pilot at a serious disadvantage. Continuing a checkride after a 6 hour oral, is setting yourself and/or your student up for failure.

The DPEs who stretch PPL checkrides out into all day marathons are typically crappy examiners as well.

We had an examiner like that. I almost told him off. He's no longer giving checkrides at our school. All I ask is for fairness.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

This is what happened to me about 10 years ago.

I was a flight instructor working at a flight school in Central California. The name of the flight school was Sierra Academy of Aeronautics.

When I was first hired, I was given 5 students. I taught those 5 students how to fly, and each of them passed their private pilot checkride. One student failed on his first attempt, which was a fair failure. The examiner's name for each of these 5 checkrides was Bruce. Bruce was a great examiner and my experience with him was amazing.

After that, I continued teaching these 5 students instrument. After a few months, it was time for each of them to take their instrument checkride. This time, Bruce's schedule was booked solid for like 2 months. I didn't want to wait months to get my students finished, so I asked if there was an alternative. The lady who schedules checkrides (they called these people "flight dispatchers") told me that the other lady who does checkrides, whose name was Linda, has a wide open schedule.

This should have been a clue that I missed. Why was Linda's schedule wide open, when Bruce's schedule is booked solid. I should have seen that this was fishy. Me being 22 years old, I just said "sign them up for next week"

I don't really want to write out all that happened, but let me say this: This Linda woman was completely unprofessional. First off, she wouldn't accet the 871 I had prepared. She made me go through all the steps to get IACRA up and running. Then after the checkride (which she failed the student), she started quizzing me. Instead of treating me as a professional like Bruce did, she treated me as if I'm an idiot. Instead of telling me why she failed my student like a normal human being, she quizzed me instead, as if my students didn't know something because I didn't know it. Instead of saying to me "I failed your student because he couldn't calculate the crosswind component", she said to me "How do you calculate the wind component".

I think Linda was having a dispute with the management of the flight school and got it in her head that she was going to fail my students no matter what.

At the time, I was 22 years old and didn't really want to argue with the examiner, especially since I have 4 more checkrides to do with here for that week. Needless to say, the rest of the 4 check-rides went the exact same way. My instructor first pass batting average want from 80% to like 50% asfter this one week. Each of my students failed the first try, but they all passed on the second try.

The reason why this whole story bothers me so much is that after those 5 students eventually passed, I was fired from that flight school. The reason they fired me was because they claimed my batting average was too low, which means I;m a *I don't have the education to emote without using a curse word* instructor. When they called me into the main office to tell me that they are firing me, I actually thought they were going to promote me. Not once did they ask for my side of the story, I was a *I don't have the education to emote without using a curse word* instructor thats all there was to it from their perspective. I probably could have filed a lawsuit against the flight school for wrongful termination, but at the time, I just wanted to get on with my life.

Has anyone here had any similar experiences? I've since moved on to other things (far far away from flight instructing), but this story still bugs me. If you show up to a flight test with your student, and the examiner seems "off", what would you do?

Bruce?! Oh, Lordy! Bruce was right up there with Sheble. Imma not gwang comment on the other examiner... Positive affirmations are important, though. At the end of the day, you should probably be very thankful you got out of that rat hole of iniquity as expeditiously as you did...

 

[CFI A&P]

This is what happened to me about 10 years ago.

I was a flight instructor working at a flight school in Central California. The name of the flight school was Sierra Academy of Aeronautics.

When I was first hired, I was given 5 students. I taught those 5 students how to fly, and each of them passed their private pilot checkride. One student failed on his first attempt, which was a fair failure. The examiner's name for each of these 5 checkrides was Bruce. Bruce was a great examiner and my experience with him was amazing.

After that, I continued teaching these 5 students instrument. After a few months, it was time for each of them to take their instrument checkride. This time, Bruce's schedule was booked solid for like 2 months. I didn't want to wait months to get my students finished, so I asked if there was an alternative. The lady who schedules checkrides (they called these people "flight dispatchers") told me that the other lady who does checkrides, whose name was Linda, has a wide open schedule.

This should have been a clue that I missed. Why was Linda's schedule wide open, when Bruce's schedule is booked solid. I should have seen that this was fishy. Me being 22 years old, I just said "sign them up for next week"

I don't really want to write out all that happened, but let me say this: This Linda woman was completely unprofessional. First off, she wouldn't accet the 871 I had prepared. She made me go through all the steps to get IACRA up and running. Then after the checkride (which she failed the student), she started quizzing me. Instead of treating me as a professional like Bruce did, she treated me as if I'm an idiot. Instead of telling me why she failed my student like a normal human being, she quizzed me instead, as if my students didn't know something because I didn't know it. Instead of saying to me "I failed your student because he couldn't calculate the crosswind component", she said to me "How do you calculate the wind component".

I think Linda was having a dispute with the management of the flight school and got it in her head that she was going to fail my students no matter what.

At the time, I was 22 years old and didn't really want to argue with the examiner, especially since I have 4 more checkrides to do with here for that week. Needless to say, the rest of the 4 check-rides went the exact same way. My instructor first pass batting average want from 80% to like 50% asfter this one week. Each of my students failed the first try, but they all passed on the second try.

The reason why this whole story bothers me so much is that after those 5 students eventually passed, I was fired from that flight school. The reason they fired me was because they claimed my batting average was too low, which means I;m a *I don't have the education to emote without using a curse word* instructor. When they called me into the main office to tell me that they are firing me, I actually thought they were going to promote me. Not once did they ask for my side of the story, I was a *I don't have the education to emote without using a curse word* instructor thats all there was to it from their perspective. I probably could have filed a lawsuit against the flight school for wrongful termination, but at the time, I just wanted to get on with my life.

Has anyone here had any similar experiences? I've since moved on to other things (far far away from flight instructing), but this story still bugs me. If you show up to a flight test with your student, and the examiner seems "off", what would you do?

You could try this for some recourse:

http://www.ruindays.com/

 

[Deleted member 27505]

You could try this for some recourse:

http://www.ruindays.com/

The awesomeness abides!