What would you do in the case of a disgruntled examiner?

nbv4

Well-Known Member
This is what happened to me about 10 years ago.

I was a flight instructor working at a flight school in Central California. The name of the flight school was Sierra Academy of Aeronautics.

When I was first hired, I was given 5 students. I taught those 5 students how to fly, and each of them passed their private pilot checkride. One student failed on his first attempt, which was a fair failure. The examiner's name for each of these 5 checkrides was Bruce. Bruce was a great examiner and my experience with him was amazing.

After that, I continued teaching these 5 students instrument. After a few months, it was time for each of them to take their instrument checkride. This time, Bruce's schedule was booked solid for like 2 months. I didn't want to wait months to get my students finished, so I asked if there was an alternative. The lady who schedules checkrides (they called these people "flight dispatchers") told me that the other lady who does checkrides, whose name was Linda, has a wide open schedule.

This should have been a clue that I missed. Why was Linda's schedule wide open, when Bruce's schedule is booked solid. I should have seen that this was fishy. Me being 22 years old, I just said "sign them up for next week"

I don't really want to write out all that happened, but let me say this: This Linda woman was completely unprofessional. First off, she wouldn't accet the 871 I had prepared. She made me go through all the steps to get IACRA up and running. Then after the checkride (which she failed the student), she started quizzing me. Instead of treating me as a professional like Bruce did, she treated me as if I'm an idiot. Instead of telling me why she failed my student like a normal human being, she quizzed me instead, as if my students didn't know something because I didn't know it. Instead of saying to me "I failed your student because he couldn't calculate the crosswind component", she said to me "How do you calculate the wind component".

I think Linda was having a dispute with the management of the flight school and got it in her head that she was going to fail my students no matter what.

At the time, I was 22 years old and didn't really want to argue with the examiner, especially since I have 4 more checkrides to do with here for that week. Needless to say, the rest of the 4 check-rides went the exact same way. My instructor first pass batting average want from 80% to like 50% asfter this one week. Each of my students failed the first try, but they all passed on the second try.

The reason why this whole story bothers me so much is that after those 5 students eventually passed, I was fired from that flight school. The reason they fired me was because they claimed my batting average was too low, which means I;m a • instructor. When they called me into the main office to tell me that they are firing me, I actually thought they were going to promote me. Not once did they ask for my side of the story, I was a • instructor thats all there was to it from their perspective. I probably could have filed a lawsuit against the flight school for wrongful termination, but at the time, I just wanted to get on with my life.

Has anyone here had any similar experiences? I've since moved on to other things (far far away from flight instructing), but this story still bugs me. If you show up to a flight test with your student, and the examiner seems "off", what would you do?
 
Well, I wouldn't send 5 students in a row to the same examiner if they were all failing. Maybe 2 then re-evaluate the situation. Typically you can get a feel for what an examiner is looking for based on their debrief and then make sure the other students are prepared for it.
 
I would just cancel it. Also, if a dpe started quizzing me, I would respectfully ask why he/she is asking me said questions. I would get my students' side of the story and then call the dpe and ask what happened. As an instructor, I went to bat for my students 100% of the time. If they failed, I would give the dpe the benefit of the doubt. Then if my student said something different, I would let the dpe know what the student said and at that point, it would be clear who was telling the truth and who had malicious intent of there was any.

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It's a tough call. I had a DE bust one of my students for what I perceived was a personality conflict. This was after hearing both sides. That was unacceptable to me... You don't bust somebody because you don't like them - that is really unprofessional. I called him out on it immediately, never had a problem with him again.

In your case, I would have ended the debrief immediately when the DE started talking down to me and pulled all of my students off her schedule. Fortunately the school I worked at had an owner that was very supportive to the instructors and allowed (encouraged) independent decision making.
 
Usually schools have fairly fixed DPEs they go to, like they purchase a block of 20 check rides for their part 141 students.

But part 61, I had DPEs I knew and asked for. I guess with PPLs the student doesn't know better, so it is for the CFI to assign one, but otherwise, the student should be allowed (to know they have) a choice at least.

Alex.
 
If you teach to PTS standards or above, there should not be any reason for you to care which examiner you get. I look at the earliest possible time over a specific examiner.
I get the fact that DPE has a monetary interest to do a check ride over doing it with the FAA directly.
I would not have any issue with either, actually i just offer to send one of my guys with a new DPE who needs to have the FAA sit in on the check ride. I know my guy and he has no problem on either oral or practical part. And i don't doubt he would pass with any examiner.
 
If you teach to PTS standards or above, there should not be any reason for you to care which examiner you get.

Meanwhile back on reality ranch.....



I don't advocate CFIs cherry picking "easy" eaxminers. However, some examiners are well known for treating students fairly (including fairly failing them) and having a favorable pass rate. Meanwhile others are well known for being intimidating and/or holding unreasonably high expectations, resulting in an abnormally high fail rate.
 
I'm in reality, i have one guy fail on my since i started teaching in 2011. It was my first signoff. Since then 100%
I'm very glad that you have the good fortune to work with several professional DPEs. Some of us were not so lucky.

I had one DPE cuss a PPL student out and tell him he would never cut it in aviation (he is a 737 Capt now). At my former school one check airman had a 80% failure rate on stage checks, another was 60%.
 
I'm very glad that you have the good fortune to work with several professional DPEs. Some of us were not so lucky.

I had one DPE cuss a PPL student out and tell him he would never cut it in aviation (he is a 737 Capt now). At my former school one check airman had a 80% failure rate on stage checks, another was 60%.
Same. I've had PPL students being asked CFI level questions.
 
I'm in reality, i have one guy fail on my since i started teaching in 2011. It was my first signoff. Since then 100%
No, you're not.

Just because someone is a DPE doesn't mean they are sanctified. I have used DPEs all over the country and have run into some real lick-bags.

I've refused to shake the hands of two men, ever. One was a completely unprofessional examiner who is a disgrace.
 
One thing I would advise is if any oral goes past 3.5 - 4 hours, you should discontinue the checkride before flying the airplane.

NOBODY is capable of performing to their full potential after getting grilled for more than 4 hours. Basic mental fatigue will put even the best pilot at a serious disadvantage. Continuing a checkride after a 6 hour oral, is setting yourself and/or your student up for failure.

The DPEs who stretch PPL checkrides out into all day marathons are typically crappy examiners as well.
 
One thing I would advise is if any oral goes past 3.5 - 4 hours, you should discontinue the checkride before flying the airplane..
Yowzas. Thats some long oral. Anything over 2 hours and there's gotta be a problem. Initial CFI excluded I'd say but even the type rides I've had the oral didn't go over 1.5 with coffee.
But way back in the early part of the 21st century, I took a commercial SEL ride with a guy that I'd flown with before and was quite a popular DE in C. FL. Halfway through a maneuver he announced that I had failed and I could continue yadda yadda yadda, I chose to end the ride and go back. I asked him to tell me specifically what I had done wrong as I was well inside PTS standards and the outcome was never in doubt. He quoted me that he had a personal limitation. I flipped out. My CFI flipped out when told as did the CP. Thankfully the Orlando FSDO agreed and pulled this guys status. Turns out I was not the only one. Guess he needed the money as he was on wife #3 and she was on the way out.
 
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