"We'll try our best"

UAL747400 said:
I don't expect much discussion after the first post at this point. I admit, was completely inappropriate. In the context of someone that had a little bit "too much fun" one night, I hope it's viewed as a bit of ribbing. Like how I rib 1900 guys. If not, oh well. What's said has been overly vocally said.

The list I posted on the previous page regarding American pilots is legitimate though. Which something I just don't see at only a handful of US carriers, including my "lowly" feeder company. If you don't see it, sorry, but American pilots with poor training(which seems to be the case at a lot of the carriers) are just plain sloppy. Phraseology and just plain LISTENING seem to be serious issues.

I just had to do a go-around on Wednesday because of an American Airlines crew not understanding "after the landing traffic, line up and wait" in Maiquetia, VZ. Yes, it is an unusual clearance, and is given in a strong Spanish accent, but it's just not confusing. Sorry...
Click to expand...
I assure you your training at AMF was worse than American Airlines.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Don't even know where to start on this one....

Are you not paid by the minute?

You seemed to be complaining earlier, if I'm not mistaken, that U.S. crews weren't up to speed on ICAO phraseology and standards. Now clearly you are pointing out a local controller "ism" that no pilot should consider safe. There's no such thing as, "after landing traffic line up and wait". The controller should have waited until the aircraft had passed the intersection the aircraft holding short was. End of that story.

Finally, how close were you on final? Do those controllers not understand speed differences? I was (finally) given a go around instruction in MDW coming through 50 ft RA because Southwest took a bit longer to accomplish its takeoff roll.

Just quit while you're behind. You aren't gaining any sympathy regarding non-standard operations at an airfield that pilots rarely see.
Click to expand...
I'm salaried, so no.

Line up and wait behind is common outside of the US and described in the ATC section of the jepps. It might even be in the AIM. I was about an 1/8 mile from the threshold. AA was already crossing the HS line and disappeared from view. (The Metro nose and tiny windows block almost everything)

Yes, I've been to LGA and ORD. What of it? Long Beach CA is the worst IMO. On the ground at least.

You know, as much as I'm bitching, I still trust us more than any other nationality. :)
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Don't even know where to start on this one....

Are you not paid by the minute?

You seemed to be complaining earlier, if I'm not mistaken, that U.S. crews weren't up to speed on ICAO phraseology and standards. Now clearly you are pointing out a local controller "ism" that no pilot should consider safe. There's no such thing as, "after landing traffic line up and wait". The controller should have waited until the aircraft had passed the intersection the aircraft holding short was. End of that story.

Finally, how close were you on final? Do those controllers not understand speed differences? I was (finally) given a go around instruction in MDW coming through 50 ft RA because Southwest took a bit longer to accomplish its takeoff roll.

Just quit while you're behind. You aren't gaining any sympathy regarding non-standard operations at an airfield that pilots rarely see.
Click to expand...
I dunno man, behind landing traffic, line up and wait is I'm pretty sure standard phraseology (as I have run into it as well) and runway incursions are kind of a big deal.
Edit: a brief bit of Google fu showed that my memory is faulty and so was the controller's clearance (at least per 7110.65). I stand corrected.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.536PI.pdf
 
DPApilot said:
I cannot stand the clearance on taxi. Especially when there isn't a taxiway and they expect you to back taxi on the runway and be ready at the end because some twin prop is on final.
Click to expand...
Bah, you've got two people! No big deal. :)

I can't stand it either, crew or not
 
Just stick to the essential bus's when you pull cbs. Its a lot safer than the non essential.
 
Bah, screw it all and switch everything inboard! No paralyzed fingers that way! It'll mostly work still. The temps aren't real anyways... :)
 
UAL747400 said:
To name a few:

-Knowing their radial and DME. It's a D airport, you should be ready to report it. This is the same in the US, it's no different here
-Not tying up the radio asking for a clearance. You'll get it when you get it. There's guys trying to land, trying to get taxi clearence, trying to take off, trying to do 1000 more important things.
-Use correct radio phraseology.
-Set altimeters correctly. You're in FLs down to 40 coming down and starting at 2500msl going up. If it is set correctly, say your altitude correctly. FL 80 is not the same as 8000 if the altimeter setting is really high. Which it usually is, in the afternoon. It makes me really uncomfortable if I have to enter a hold between two airplanes and one of them is saying their altitude like they already trasitioned.
-United guys are the only ones that wave back on the ramp. :)

These things are small by themselves, but they are still annoying. Sometimes though, it also makes the whole already strained operation fall apart. Yes, Aruba is the root of the problem.

I named a few "US jet jockies" that never cause problems. I'm picking on the others.
Click to expand...

I get my clearance early pretty much every time if possible. Why? Workload management. I'm usually sitting in the airplane with the engines off and the avionics master on when I get my clearance. Why the heck should I try to taxi and flip switches and get ATIS and my taxi-clearance all at once? It doesn't make sense to do that while I taxi out single pilot - it's illogical. What if I miss some crucial reroute or something because I'm not focused on the task at hand, or read back the wrong heading or altitude and ATC misses it on the readback (that actually happened to a coworker at another job and the FAA tried to hang him for it) because I was trying to do too many things at once? No...I'm gonna be that guy who calls for clearance, IDGAF if there's 50 AmFlight metros rocketing into the airport. I'll wait until there's a gap in the frequency and it sounds like it's the right time, but some times I'm not going to get it right. Sorry, but if me exercising some workload management creates a minor inconvenience for you because the frequency is a little busier than you'd like it to be, then so be it. There are plenty of places with busy congested frequencies out there, you'll be fine.
 
ppragman said:
I get my clearance early pretty much every time if possible.
Click to expand...

That's great. However, what he's referring to is outside the US (even more outside than Alaska). ATC in a lot of cases won't give it to you until after you start taxiing.
 
Polar742 said:
That's great. However, what he's referring to is outside the US (even more outside than Alaska). ATC in a lot of cases won't give it to you until after you start taxiing.
Click to expand...

You do realize I've flown more places than Alaska, right?
 
ppragman said:
I get my clearance early pretty much every time if possible. Why? Workload management. I'm usually sitting in the airplane with the engines off and the avionics master on when I get my clearance. Why the heck should I try to taxi and flip switches and get ATIS and my taxi-clearance all at once? It doesn't make sense to do that while I taxi out single pilot - it's illogical. What if I miss some crucial reroute or something because I'm not focused on the task at hand, or read back the wrong heading or altitude and ATC misses it on the readback (that actually happened to a coworker at another job and the FAA tried to hang him for it) because I was trying to do too many things at once? No...I'm gonna be that guy who calls for clearance, IDGAF if there's 50 AmFlight metros rocketing into the airport. I'll wait until there's a gap in the frequency and it sounds like it's the right time, but some times I'm not going to get it right. Sorry, but if me exercising some workload management creates a minor inconvenience for you because the frequency is a little busier than you'd like it to be, then so be it. There are plenty of places with busy congested frequencies out there, you'll be fine.
Click to expand...
St. Lucia will give it too me after I start. Curacao has started to give clearances right after start and even at the gate sometimes. Aruba does have an area I could pull off into, maybe. Never tried it. I think it would be tight for some of the bigger stuff to get by.

I get annoyed because it does tie up a busy freq, and they're NOT going to give it to you, so it's just an annoying waste of time
 
I guess we never learned our lesson after Tenerife ! getting a Enroute Clrn on the same freq as your takeoff Clrn!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

NewsBot
  • Locked
Air Traffic Control Terminal
Replies
0
Views
215
NewsBot
NewsBot
NewsBot
  • Locked
Air Traffic Control Terminal
Replies
0
Views
224
NewsBot
NewsBot
NewsBot
  • Locked
Air Traffic Control Terminal
Replies
0
Views
470
NewsBot
NewsBot
tcco94
Delta's success with the B717
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
mshunter
M
ChasenSFO
AT-SA exam gouge(what to expect/how to prepare)
2 3
Replies
51
Views
38K
ChasenSFO
ChasenSFO
Back
Top