Southwest tries to redecorate LGA tower

NE reading this thread about us being too lazy to throw him a bone

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NovemberEcho said:
I’ve pretty much stopped issuing visual approaches to 121 because y’all don’t turn towards the airport anymore. Instead yall (generic yall) square off base to final and wind up flying 2-3 miles more than if I had just vectored for the ILS.
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I’d say about as high as 70% of Airbus pilots of any flavor will get themselves screwed up in this scenario because when the plane “goes off script” it can be a bear in terms of energy management. Especially when you’re turned in and you’re trying to capture the GS from above, slowing and try to time it out around the market.

“I got it I got it I got it, it’s just about to…”

“Welp, there it is, ALT HLD, whatcha gonna do, sparky?” :)
 
derg said:
I’d say about as high as 70% of Airbus pilots of any flavor will get themselves screwed up in this scenario because when the plane “goes off script” it can be a bear in terms of energy management. Especially when you’re turned in and you’re trying to capture the GS from above, slowing and try to time it out around the market.

“I got it I got it I got it, it’s just about to…”

“Welp, there it is, ALT HLD, whatcha gonna do, sparky?” :)
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Perfect scenario for “autopilot off, flight directors off”
 
Maybe something ATC may know but don’t fully understand is that we use the loc/gs even when cleared the visual. Since we use that our lowest alt set is usually the FAP altitude to capture so we either direct the FAP or dial HDG in to intercept right around it. Going inside works if you click everything off but using automation, we can’t really set anything lower in terms of safety if we don’t ever capture the GS and are heading down in FLCH or VS. Also making sure we are fully configured and stable if cleared a little high on the base causes us to square it off ( if you notice the GS is atleast a dot low or more) as you’re turning in
 
derg said:
I’d say about as high as 70% of Airbus pilots of any flavor will get themselves screwed up in this scenario because when the plane “goes off script” it can be a bear in terms of energy management. Especially when you’re turned in and you’re trying to capture the GS from above, slowing and try to time it out around the market.

“I got it I got it I got it, it’s just about to…”

“Welp, there it is, ALT HLD, whatcha gonna do, sparky?” :)
Click to expand...

CLICK CLICK

CLICK CLICK

though in the Bus it should really just be

CLICK CLICK

I might be showing my age with this comment, whatever. Come at me, bro.
 
Inverted said:
Dude, now you're gonna get me started...

I agree though, I haven't seen an FO turn the FDs off since I upgraded and it has been in both airplanes, the Bus and 737. When I was transitioning to the 737 I called for the FDs off when they gave us a last-minute runway change and the FO said "no, we can't do that" lol.

The energy management thing is fascinating to me but it is for sure the culture of the 737 and how we train and fly it. With having to slow so much to configure with flaps, and the way people are scared to use speed to their advantage really shows that energy management is not really taught. Configuring when the conditions are perfect is fine but when the dynamics of flying take over, it is simply 'throw the gear out 13 miles out and 9k high because why not?"
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Skåning said:
Preaching to the choir. I enjoy seeing the panic in their faces when I have speed brakes out and ask for flaps 10.

Almost every time they fly and drop the gear waaaaay da fuq out, we level off at some point and brrrrr the N1s go up and we sit there trucking along. Smh
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Do you both as Captains, offer to train your F/O's on energy management and other associated things related to being an aviator vs. a pilot? If asked?
 
Yeah...a lot goes into it. You'll be all planned and configured for an instrument approach where that 2 or 3 mile base leg was part of the plan. You are on speed to execute the instrument approach and cutting those 2-3 miles out could totally change up the game plan.

If you're on an RNAV approach and given the visual...you can't turn inside of the final approach fix because the fms won't allow you to do so and keep your vertical guidance. So now your flight director is not doing what you want it to and you're having to change modes to get the airplane to do what you want it to...


...or you can just fly the profile you planned and not have the headache of all the above.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
If asked is the key phrase there.

Narrator: “They never ask.”
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I preface it with, I want all the tools in my future bag so if you see I could be doing something better please let me know. Hopefully that makes it seem confident but willing to learn from the captain as well. That way they know I’m not the fragile ego type.

I can tell within 1 leg of meeting the CA if they’re going to be the mentor type, or the I just want to get this trip done without teaching anything type.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Do you both as Captains, offer to train your F/O's on energy management and other associated things related to being an aviator vs. a pilot? If asked?
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Also keep in mind…most of the time this is below 10k, sterile, and if you try to also start being a check pilot you likely will only confuse things and get everyone off their game. If it’s essential to keep things safe sure, but it isn’t the time to start talking about “techniques” or “what I do…”.
 
Skåning said:
I’m not surprised, the lack of spacial awareness, configuration, etc is kinda shocking. You have to “think in 3D” with this job and all you need to know is your distance, speed, and alt to the runway. It’s not that hard.

Ok since you got me on a rant I see guys all the time can’t even fathom increasing airspeed in a descent gets you down quicker, then go to idle and level off for the speed restriction.

Maybe “energy management” isn’t really taught anymore?
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I especially like guys who see the VNAV magenta arrow go down, path reverts to speed, and they immediately reach down for the speed brakes. Especially in the flight levels. It’s like, dude, give it a sec. Use the VSD. I’ve had several FOs day “we aren’t gonna make it.” And it’s like, yeah we are.


Unless the STAR has a 280 knot speed restriction, and unless ATC assigned you a speed limit, does it matter if you go 290 or 300 to make it back on profile? IMO, no. Let the plane do its thing. Like you said, faster speed in the descent to get back on profile, and once it levels the speed will come back. It isn’t rocket science.
 
roundout said:
CLICK CLICK

CLICK CLICK

though in the Bus it should really just be

CLICK CLICK

I might be showing my age with this comment, whatever. Come at me, bro.
Click to expand...




I wish! No one seems to just click click , click click on a 737 anymore.


First click disconnects AP and AT.


Second click silences AP horn and stops AT flashing light.



Clicks 3 through 20? WHY?! Without fail, I see guys mash both buttons repeatedly as if it owes them money!
 
derg said:
I’d say about as high as 70% of Airbus pilots of any flavor will get themselves screwed up in this scenario because when the plane “goes off script” it can be a bear in terms of energy management. Especially when you’re turned in and you’re trying to capture the GS from above, slowing and try to time it out around the market.

“I got it I got it I got it, it’s just about to…”

“Welp, there it is, ALT HLD, whatcha gonna do, sparky?” :)
Click to expand...
*managed speed* *open descent*

“It’s a bold strategy Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for 'em”
 
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