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I kicked everything off when I flew the Airbus. Very rarely did I land with AT. On the 737, I don’t have a choice
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- Thread starter thepedroid
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I kicked everything off when I flew the Airbus. Very rarely did I land with AT. On the 737, I don’t have a choice
I kicked everything off when I flew the Airbus. Very rarely did I land with AT. On the 737, I don’t have a choice
Can’t kick everything off on the 737? Or not supposed to? For all the crap the 737 gets, it’s an easy jet to hand fly. Have taken them around the traffic pattern pulling a departure-end closed climbing turn to downwind, and not flying a C-5 Galaxy pattern, and it flies fine fully manually. Sure, you have to maintain high SA and ve ahead of the jet, but it’s not a heavy lift at all, especially in the -200.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Other way, you can’t leave the AT on to touchdown on the 73 like you can on the bus. Unless doing a full autoland
Not really...
That's kind of the new normal... Every time current-folk get distracted and momentarily look up from their obsessive phone-clicking to see the real world, they face that self-same startle-effect. Sometimes that's the ass-end of a semi trailer. Sometimes that's just taking the money from the customer who's trying to pay. One day soon, it's gonna be remembering to breathe. (Oh, snap! Wouldn't the world be soooo much better if Elon-bro could attach the chips to the brain in a fashion that would allow them to overcome the parasympathetic nervous system and actually cause people who don't pay attention to the world around them to die??)
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Ah! That makes sense then regarding the Bus. Interesting to note.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Yeah ... I've said it a few times here, but the crop of new FOs I've been flying with has been pretty excellent, overall, all things considered.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
So this is just a teeny, tiny, partial de-rail, but I'd like to ask a general question of the more seasoned Captains out there, since I'm a pretty inexperienced FO.
I like to hand-fly. And I would hand-fly more, but I've gotten a very distinct impression from a number of my Captains that:
1) It makes more work for them and they really don't like it.
2) A lot of them seem to think that turning off the automation means I don't know how to use it.
So when I get those vibes I tend to go the way I'm perceiving that the CA wants, despite my preference to do otherwise. In the case of Item 2, I don't really press the issue, I just kinda say "okay." That's passive. I know that's not always a good thing in an FO. I'm still learning how to do this job.
Common sense says that on a heavy IMC day, especially toward the end of a trip when everyone's tired, using a little more automation makes sense.
But what's the etiquette here when things are pretty nice and calm and clear and there's no reason not to other than....the other pilot doesn't really *want* you to....?
I like to hand-fly. And I would hand-fly more, but I've gotten a very distinct impression from a number of my Captains that:
1) It makes more work for them and they really don't like it.
2) A lot of them seem to think that turning off the automation means I don't know how to use it.
So when I get those vibes I tend to go the way I'm perceiving that the CA wants, despite my preference to do otherwise. In the case of Item 2, I don't really press the issue, I just kinda say "okay." That's passive. I know that's not always a good thing in an FO. I'm still learning how to do this job.
Common sense says that on a heavy IMC day, especially toward the end of a trip when everyone's tired, using a little more automation makes sense.
But what's the etiquette here when things are pretty nice and calm and clear and there's no reason not to other than....the other pilot doesn't really *want* you to....?
Turn the useless FDs off when on a visual approach and hand flying also. The humanity! Haha
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I think it’s probably very pilot-group-dependent. Johnny-Cash-on-the-tail airways seems to be pretty pro-hand flying as long as you’re not in trashy weather or really busy terminal airspace. I even *gasp* did @MikeD ‘s much favored FD-off visual approach on OE.
At least on the 73, a visual with the FDs on where they may be giving some useless info, some pilots will unknowingly follow them to nowhere with their garbage info. Why they’re even looking at them during that, I don’t know.
Screw ‘em…
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Say "I have CQ coming up and would like to hand fly".
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I will usually fly from 1000' on down. Going into a lot of places with terrible English, I would rather have two guys focusing on the instructions. On the way up I will fly up to about 10,000 if it's not busy.
As for AT, the guidance from Boeing is to keep it on. So I do. I have yet to see somebody turn it off.
As for AT, the guidance from Boeing is to keep it on. So I do. I have yet to see somebody turn it off.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yeah right. No I don’t. That Delta dude I saw on an APC thread and is the only reason I knew.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Our policy is AP on, AT on. Or AP off, AT off.
Wd epitomized is handflying after TO with AT on. And if you G/A, you have the option of AT on during the go around above 500 ft.
And NO, still no flaps 2.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Dunno... bro! You're ALWAYS the one to post a vid on here from a pilot influencer. I and probably half the site has never heard of them. But you always have. If you're not posting their video, you're referencing them in a post, with detailed info on said video.
The Bard might be right in this case. That you protest too much.
Our policy is AP on, AT on. Or AP off, AT off
And NO, still no flaps 2.
Yup. Either all on, or all off, except perhaps in climbout which makes sense. Of course, don’t have them in the -200 anyway. But do in the -500.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, use your best judgment to maintain CRM. I'm delighted when my FOs want to handfly, even if they're not great at it (only one way to learn), and I try to make sure that that's communicated to them. That said, I also try to build an environment where they're comfortable speaking up, or trying (reasonable) things. As long as I can follow what they're doing, we're good.
I've started adding something to the end of my first briefing with a new FO that I hope helps:
"If you see something, speak up early, speak up often. If you don't know what I'm doing, I may not know what I'm doing. And even if I do, I haven't done my job in keeping the shared mental model going. We're here to get this done as a team."
Ultimately, you should be able to brief "I plan to hand-fly the arrival for proficiency" or even just say "Alright, I'm going to hand fly from here," or "This is me." <click> and all should be well. But at the end of the day, some captains—especially less-competent ones—simply don't trust their FOs, and if you can't earn their trust and they're vetoing you doing the hand-flying, just avoid flying with them in the future.