Simulated Instrument in Sim for PPL

[tgrayson]

i always liked being told i am flat out wrong. makes you feel good

Being told you are wrong generally generally creates the expectation you will back up your assertions with evidence. Could you post a letter of authorization for a particular FTD to be used as the three hours of flight by reference to instruments for the PPL? (The FAA has said this is not allowed.)

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

no sir, i am right. check the manual on your faa approved FTD or approved flight simulator and you will see what the faa says the sim time can be used for. i always liked being told i am flat out wrong. makes you feel good.

You are wrong. Read the requirements of the private pilot certificate, as I posted above. The sim can be used for up to 2.5 hours towards the 35/40 hours (141/61), but it CANNOT be used for the 3 hours of instrument reference. Read the reg that I posted above. 61.109(a)(3). It specifically says "airplane" and DOES NOT say "simulated or actual instrument."


Also, I posted a photo of our FTD approval letter.

 

[yoman793]

You are wrong. Read the requirements of the private pilot certificate, as I posted above. The sim can be used for up to 2.5 hours towards the 35/40 hours (141/61), but it CANNOT be used for the 3 hours of instrument reference. Read the reg that I posted above. 61.109(a)(3). It specifically says "airplane" and DOES NOT say "simulated or actual instrument."


Also, I posted a photo of our FTD approval letter.

i posted from the flight school earlier today after one..... checking with my instructor, and two..... looking at the manual and the FAA approval letter stating that the FTD can be used for 2.5 hours towards your PPL total time and count towards the 3 hours (not the whole 3 hours) required instrument time for the ppl. i will be sure to snap a photo of the manual for you all to see. i just dont see why i would want to mislead ya'll regarding this. i was only trying to help out the originator of this thread. i couldnt give two ****'s about the sim and fully believe the only way to do it is in the real thing.

today i met with my FAA examiner to hand in paperwork and set up my checkride time for friday. my instructor and i even bothered to ask him about the sim time since i was alerted of being incorrect today. he said, "well.. what does the manual say?" after reading the manual he said, "looks like you can log up to 2.5 hours on here."

ya know what youngflyer.... you better just do it in the real plane. its better real life experience and you wont get in trouble with your peers for trying to save a few bucks. plus, you really cant get good practice with unusual attitude recovery in the sim. and on a day like today with crazy winds in N Florida, instrument work in severe winds is alot different in the real thing.

 

[tgrayson]

i just dont see why i would want to mislead ya'll regarding this. i was only trying to help out the originator of this thread. i couldnt give two ****'s about the sim and fully believe the only way to do it is in the real thing.

We don't think you're trying to mislead us, we just think you're in error. If you have such a letter, there's good chance it was mistakenly issued.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

You can, however, use 2.5 hours of sim time towards the total time requirement. Re: 61.109(k)(1)

You do need at least 3 hours in the airplane, but a valuable way of gaining experience in a sim is to practice ATC procedures that you might do to get down out of clouds. Note also that this sim time must be with an "authorized instructor", which means an Instrument Instructor. The 3 hours of "aircraft control by reference to instruments" in an airplane do not have to be with an instrument instructor.

Can't an advanced ground instructor give ground instruction in a simulator for a private license? Simulator time is ground training, isn't it? By the same token, I believe a CFI can give this training in a simulator without being an instrument instructor since it is not training for an instrument rating.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

i posted from the flight school earlier today after one..... checking with my instructor, and two..... looking at the manual and the FAA approval letter stating that the FTD can be used for 2.5 hours towards your PPL total time and count towards the 3 hours (not the whole 3 hours) required instrument time for the ppl.

From your posts, it seems as if you are a student pilot. If so, you will learn a few things in your flying career. Here are a few:

A. Instructors are not always right
B. Designated examiners and even FSDO FAA employees are notorious for misinterpreting the regulations.

With that said, I think you are misinterpreting what the manual says. It probably says something along the lines of this:

Except as provided in paragraphs (k)(2) of this section, a maximum of 2.5 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device representing the category, class, and type, if applicable, of aircraft appropriate to the rating sought, may be credited toward the flight training time required by this section, if received from an authorized instructor.

Which means you can credit 2.5 hours towards the aeronautical experience requirements (35 or 40 hours). You CANNOT count it towards the instrument reference, but the regulation REQUIRES that it be in the airplane. I would like to see your letter. I bet it on references 61.109(k)(2), which is what I posted.

however, the time in the sim does not count as total time towards your ppl license, only counts for the simulated instrument time.

This is what I am saying is wrong. You have it backwards. You CAN count it as the experience towards the private, but you CANNOT count it towards the instrument reference. Look in the FAR/AIM under 61.109(a)(3) which I posted in a previous post. It SPECIFICALLY says AIRPLANE.


What part of N. Florida are you training in? I did my private in Florida.