President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks out

[Baronman]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I simply put it in perspective. I'd be more concerned with another bird strike bringing down another airplane before I consider major airliner hijacking.

But - it's all relative. I'm not dismissing anything. I'm simply putting it in what I believe is it's proper perspective.

I'm not sure what airline you're at...But I know we spend more time considering hijacking and security issues than we spend considering bird strikes.

 

[MFT1Air]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I'm not sure what airline you're at...But I know we spend more time considering hijacking and security issues than we spend considering bird strikes.

Sorry, what I meant was, if I were on the ground looking at airplanes in the sky. . .

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

IMO they could have made some sort of announcement very shortly before it took place.

Also, I find it hard to believe that Obama didn't know about it.

As I heard on the radio today he probably was doing some aerial surveying on where to put the new Obama Statue

 

[Hacker15e]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Yes. Do you have any idea how many U.S. Redeye missiles were provided to the Taliban when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan?

As well as the Redeye's follow on, the FIM-92 Stinger basic. There are HUNDREDS of them that were delivered to Afghanistan and not expended on Soviet aircraft.

We're still seeing them in Afghanistan today.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

The redeyes would work but I don't think the stingers would due to the battery units being unservicable after a few years. Of course, Iran is manufacturing their own stingers now...


As for russian MANPADS, I just read this:

On August 12, 2003, as a result of a sting operation arranged as a result of cooperation between the American, British and Russian intelligence agencies, Hemant Lakhani, a British national, was intercepted attempting to bring what he had thought was an older-generation Igla into the USA. He is said to have intended the missile to be used in an attack on Air Force One, the American presidential plane, or on a commercial US airliner, and is understood to have planned to buy 50 more of these weapons.
Allegedly, after the Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti (FSB) detected the dealer in Russia, he was approached by US undercover agents posing as terrorists wanting to shoot down a commercial plane. He was then provided with a non-working Igla by undercover Russian agents, and arrested in Newark, New Jersey, when making the delivery to the undercover US agent. An Indian citizen residing in Malaysia, Moinuddeen Ahmed Hameed and an American Yehuda Abraham who allegedly provided money to buy the missile were also arrested.

 

[Soul Brotha']

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Ladies and Gents, people react to events very differently. I was in NYC on 9/11 way b4 I decided to go for the flying career. To those who say people need to chill out/relax etc you were not there. Nothing like having a F-16 fly over your neighborhood and wondering what the F? I consider myself a sensible guy. But to many anytime a plane is flying a little bit low it causes concern especially in the NYC.

 

[MFT1Air]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Ladies and Gents, people react to events very differently. I was in NYC on 9/11 way b4 I decided to go for the flying career. To those who say people need to chill out/relax etc you were not there.

Excuse me, but WHERE IS THERE? At what distance from the events of 9/11 should a "reasonable" person not be concerned? A block? A mile? Crosstown? Trenton, NJ?

We all know there's a Nothing like having a F-16 fly over your neighborhood and wondering what the F? I consider myself a sensible guy. But to many anytime a plane is flying a little bit low it causes concern especially in the NYC.

Concern? Yes! Raised eyebrows? Yes! Fear/freakin' out? I thought I was a reasonable person, but please. . .from anoher reasonable person, you tell me.

 

[SIUav8er]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I woulda thought it was strange to see the 747 buzzing downtown Manhattan, but I think that seeing the F-16's in trail would have been somewhat reassuring. As for the poor communication, isnt the NYPD to blame as well here? They were notified before hand as well as several other agencies... why is it all the military's fault that the general public didnt know about this in advance?

 

[MikeD]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I woulda thought it was strange to see the 747 buzzing downtown Manhattan, but I think that seeing the F-16's in trail would have been somewhat reassuring. As for the poor communication, isnt the NYPD to blame as well here? They were notified before hand as well as several other agencies... why is it all the military's fault that the general public didnt know about this in advance?

The notification that went to the NYPD regards the event was marked "not for public dissemination", as was reported.

 

[jtrain609]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I'm not sure what airline you're at...But I know we spend more time considering hijacking and security issues than we spend considering bird strikes.

I had more bird strikes (1) than I had hijackings (0).

 

[pullup]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Decide for yourself:


April 27th:

[YT]RlCiYAMk8Lg[/YT]



9/11:

[YT]KPvi8sOGN5U[/YT]

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I think your video clearly shows that it is AF1. Anyone who has watched a TV (and therefore knows about 9-11), knows what the aircraft looks like that carries the President. At that point, if you think the PRESIDENTIAL aircraft has been hijacked, you might as well think you've got the feds snooping at your through your showerhead.

 

[pullup]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I think your video clearly shows that it is AF1. Anyone who has watched a TV (and therefore knows about 9-11), knows what the aircraft looks like that carries the President. At that point, if you think the PRESIDENTIAL aircraft has been hijacked, you might as well think you've got the feds snooping at your through your showerhead.

I think the video clearly shows that the plane is unknown, at least in the beginning. I think what is being overlooked is that NYC is a tourist town and probably a lot of tourists called in. I'm pretty sure the NYPD didn't get 8.5 million 911 calls. But seriously, how many would truthfully stand up (a la 300 movie fame) rip off their shirts and scream that the terrorists have not beaten them? C'mon, you guys would be freaked out as well...at least in the beginning. Maybe when it got closer and you were able to see the AF1 markings would the boys be able to descend but I would guess there would be some pucker factor going on.

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I think your video clearly shows that it is AF1.

And EVERYONE who caught a GLIMPSE of the aircraft had that Video to make there decision whether this was cause for concern.

Seriously, think!

 

[jtrain609]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

And EVERYONE who caught a GLIMPSE of the aircraft had that Video to make there decision whether this was cause for concern.

Seriously, think!

Actually, that's what a few people are advocating; thinking instead of reacting.

Think of it like this. You're sitting in your cockpit, fat dumb and happy at 370. You hear the airplane go *DING!* Do you...

1. Scratch yourself.

2. Disconnect the autopilot and do the emergency descent memory items.

3. Grab the yoke and check the EICAS to figure out what's going on.

4. Crap your pants.

From the sounds of it, most people performed a combo of 2 and 4, probably at the same time. It does no good to simply react to something like that and flip out, because much like in an airplane if you don't have time to think about something like this you're probably dead anyway.

I mean really, we're talking about endorsing non rational behavior that would seem to me to have a higher likelihood of getting somebody hurt than looking at the situation, assessing it rationally and THEN taking action.

 

[pullup]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Actually, that's what a few people are advocating; thinking instead of reacting.

Think of it like this. You're sitting in your cockpit, fat dumb and happy at 370. You hear the airplane go *DING!* Do you...

1. Scratch yourself.

2. Disconnect the autopilot and do the emergency descent memory items.

3. Grab the yoke and check the EICAS to figure out what's going on.

4. Crap your pants.

From the sounds of it, most people performed a combo of 2 and 4, probably at the same time. It does no good to simply react to something like that and flip out, because much like in an airplane if you don't have time to think about something like this you're probably dead anyway.

I mean really, we're talking about endorsing non rational behavior that would seem to me to have a higher likelihood of getting somebody hurt than looking at the situation, assessing it rationally and THEN taking action.

The problem with this thinking is that in the case of ramming airplanes into buildings the pedestrian has zero choice in the matter. They can think all they want about what to do, but bottom line is they have to get out of the way.

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Actually, that's what a few people are advocating; thinking instead of reacting.

Think of it like this. You're sitting in your cockpit, fat dumb and happy at 370. You hear the airplane go *DING!* Do you...

1. Scratch yourself.

2. Disconnect the autopilot and do the emergency descent memory items.

3. Grab the yoke and check the EICAS to figure out what's going on.

4. Crap your pants.

From the sounds of it, most people performed a combo of 2 and 4, probably at the same time. It does no good to simply react to something like that and flip out, because much like in an airplane if you don't have time to think about something like this you're probably dead anyway.

I mean really, we're talking about endorsing non rational behavior that would seem to me to have a higher likelihood of getting somebody hurt than looking at the situation, assessing it rationally and THEN taking action.

Different situations John. Thinking about what you are saying about people who misread a situation, and understanding that the people didn't have all the information available that we do, to make a decision that could potentially cost them their life. It does a LOT more good to act in a way that is self preserving if all the information is not available, and laugh at yourself later, then to lose your life. That should be clear as day to anyone.

 

[jtrain609]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Different situations John. Thinking about what you are saying about people who misread a situation, and understanding that the people didn't have all the information available that we do, to make a decision that could potentially cost them their life. It does a LOT more good to act in a way that is self preserving if all the information is not available, and laugh at yourself later, then to lose your life. That should be clear as day to anyone.

If it was clear as day, then why are we having this discussion? It obviously isn't.

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

If it was clear as day, then why are we having this discussion? It obviously isn't.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Different situations John. Thinking about what you are saying about people who misread a situation, and understanding that the people didn't have all the information available that we do, to make a decision that could potentially cost them their life. It does a LOT more good to act in a way that is self preserving if all the information is not available, and laugh at yourself later, then to lose your life. That should be clear as day to anyone.

Is it self preserving to calmly observe something out of the ordinary, get into a heightened state of alert, and contemplate your options, or, see something you don't understand, run around screaming "I know it is a hijacking!!" and freak out?

Just because you are worried about a repeat doesn't mean it's right to scream fire in a crowded theatre.