President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks out

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Why would you blindly go about running away when you have NO IDEA why everyone is doing something. Why do passengers open emergency doors and jump on the ground when they see flames coming from an engine at the gate, even though the flight attendants are issuing clear instructions. P A N I C. Not smart.

So you are in a crowd, the entire crowd starts to run. You stand there. Got it. :whatever:

 

[pullup]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I think that panic is wrong. I also think that evacuating without knowing more is wrong. Does your family run outside the door when the smoke alarms go off making dinner?

In that case they know where the fire is. If it goes off in the middle of the night you bet your ass everyone is out ASAP and THEN try to figure out what to do.

 

[ready2fly]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Mods, this horse is dead. Please close it.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

So you are in a crowd, the entire crowd starts to run. You stand there. Got it. :whatever:

You're not answering the questions.... while I may be adding them later, give some of my questions a serious response. Don't just blindly assume that my actions in every situation would be the same. I would assess the situation first. Reference the line about the aircraft evacuation precipitated by panicked passengers. Would YOU run with them or sit in the aircraft?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

In that case they know where the fire is. If it goes off in the middle of the night you bet your ass everyone is out ASAP and THEN try to figure out what to do.

Hmm.... last couple of times a fire alarm went off in the middle of the night, there was no panic involved. No one got out ASAP. It was very cool, calm, and collected. Why? Because there were no indications that would make a reasonable person think that a mad dash out the door would be the only thing that could save them.

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Why would you blindly go about running away when you have NO IDEA why everyone is doing something. Why do passengers open emergency doors and jump on the ground when they see flames coming from an engine at the gate, even though the flight attendants are issuing clear instructions. P A N I C. Not smart.

And by the way, you never answered my question, you just countered with more arguments for me....

Do you think panic is an acceptable response (whether it is involuntary or not) to a situation in which you do not know the details, such as whether your life is in danger?

Would you teach your children that panic, while part of a human "fight or flight" response, is acceptable when they see something out of the ordinary?

If you were bleeding to death, would you want someone to PANIC, or dial 911 and remain calm but vigilant for your health?

Would you PANIC or have a PANIC response if you were driving down a freeway and someone attempted to make a lane change into your vehicle?

You are confusing the word PANIC with a flight response until the situation can be assessed, that is why I didn't answer your question.

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Hmm.... last couple of times a fire alarm went off in the middle of the night, there was no panic involved. No one got out ASAP. It was very cool, calm, and collected. Why? Because there were no indications that would make a reasonable person think that a mad dash out the door would be the only thing that could save them.

Once again, you are the macho man, and we bow to your splendor. :cwm27:

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Mods, this horse is dead. Please close it.

If you have a problem with a thread, or post, you can click the red triangle next to anyone's post and report it.... and ask that question there..... what's wrong with debate?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

You are confusing the word PANIC with a flight response until the situation can be assessed, that is why I didn't answer your question.

Once again, you are the macho man, and we bow to your splendor. :cwm27:

Panic and flight response are essentially one in the same.... but answer it as if "fight or flight" hadn't been interjected into the discussion.

A "panic attack" is the inappropriate emergence of the human "fight or flight" response at an inopportune time. Physically, panic attacks are characterized by sweatiness, racing pulse, dizziness, hot flashes, and discoloration of the skin. And these are only the physical attributes. The most oppressive aspect of a panic attack is resident within one's thoughts.

Why is it that I'm asking you a question and you ignore it and choose to patronize me?

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Panic and flight response are essentially one in the same...

No, it's not, that's why I said you were (and still are) confusing the terms.

Why is it that I'm asking you a question and you ignore it and choose to patronize me?

Because the question makes no sense until you understand the terms.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

No, it's not, that's why I said you were (and still are) confusing the terms.




Because the question makes no sense until you understand the terms.

Well, will you define them for me then? The definitions that I looked up specific to this discussion seem to indicate that panic is essentially a fight or flight response:

A "panic attack" is the inappropriate emergence of the human "fight or flight" response at an inopportune time. Physically, panic attacks are characterized by sweatiness, racing pulse, dizziness, hot flashes, and discoloration of the skin. And these are only the physical attributes. The most oppressive aspect of a panic attack is resident within one's thoughts.

This seems to support my question. I could be wrong, I'm looking it up right now...

Panic attacks are very sudden, discrete periods of intense anxiety, mounting physiological arousal, fear, stomach problems and discomfort that are associated with a variety of somatic and cognitive symptoms.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-0>[1]</SUP> The onset of these episodes is typically abrupt, and may have no obvious triggers. Although these episodes may appear random, they are a subset of an evolutionary response commonly referred to as fight or flight that occur out of context.

According to wikipedia.... I'd say that is darn close....

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Well, will you define them for me then? The definitions that I looked up specific to this discussion seem to indicate that panic is essentially a fight or flight response:



This seems to support my question. I could be wrong, I'm looking it up right now...



According to wikipedia.... I'd say that is darn close....

Now you are adding a third term, Panic Attack, that does not correspond to the first two in question. Just go back to Wikipedia and look up Panic, and Fight or Flight. You'll (hopefully) see they are not synonymous. If that doesn't do it for you, nothing I say could either.

 

[Qgar]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Not to resurrent the "dead horse," but I want to add something. I've been in several situations where fire alarms went off in hotels and rental condos. EACH time it happened, I didn't run around the room like a chicken with its head cut off (read: panic.) I calmly got dressed, grabbed my handbag and LEFT. It didn't matter to me what the PA announcement said. In some cases, it was a minute or two BEFORE any announcement was made. Sorry, but I'm not going to stand around waiting for "instructions." I've hiked my ass OUT of the room, down the stairs and into the lobby (or outside) until I was DAMNED sure everything was under control. In these situations, seconds count and wasting them waiting to hear "EVACUATE" and then be stuck evacuating with a crowd that may or may not be "panicking," is not something I care to do. I left my parents, brother and his family in a condo unit during one fire (NOT a false alarm). They were taking their sweet-ass time, brushing their teeth, combing their hair, gathering up stuff and WAITING to be told what to do. I told them to just leave everything and follow me, but when it was clear they didn't want to, I grabbed my kids and still in our pjs and barefoot, walked down 11 flights of stairs. The rest of the family eventually met up with us outside the building, but I was shocked at how nonchalant they all were. Especially shocking since most of my family is anal-rententive and follow authority to the letter. I guess human nature is weird. Again, if that makes me irrational or a chicken-you-know-what, so be it.

I'll go one further. After 9/11 I sat my kids down (who were about 8 and 10 at that point) and told them that if they were ever in a situation like that---it was perfectly fine for them to leave the premises. Remember, they were all in Catholic school and were "aware" of the authority that ran the school. I told them that I would worry about the consequences of them leaving the building under orders NOT to. I'd rather they were alive and in disciplinary trouble, then be a lemming and D-E-A-D.

 

[MFT1Air]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Not to resurrent the "dead horse," but I want to add something. I've been in several situations where fire alarms went off in hotels and rental condos. EACH time it happened, I didn't run around the room like a chicken with its head cut off (read: panic.) I calmly got dressed, grabbed my handbag and LEFT. It didn't matter to me what the PA announcement said. In some cases, it was a minute or two BEFORE any announcement was made. Sorry, but I'm not going to stand around waiting for "instructions." I've hiked my ass OUT of the room, down the stairs and into the lobby (or outside) until I was DAMNED sure everything was under control. In these situations, seconds count and wasting them waiting to hear "EVACUATE" and then be stuck evacuating with a crowd that may or may not be "panicking," is not something I care to do. I left my parents, brother and his family in a condo unit during one fire (NOT a false alarm). They were taking their sweet-ass time, brushing their teeth, combing their hair, gathering up stuff and WAITING to be told what to do. I told them to just leave everything and follow me, but when it was clear they didn't want to, I grabbed my kids and still in our pjs and barefoot, walked down 11 flights of stairs. The rest of the family eventually met up with us outside the building, but I was shocked at how nonchalant they all were. Especially shocking since most of my family is anal-rententive and follow authority to the letter. I guess human nature is weird. Again, if that makes me irrational or a chicken-you-know-what, so be it.

I'll go one further. After 9/11 I sat my kids down (who were about 8 and 10 at that point) and told them that if they were ever in a situation like that---it was perfectly fine for them to leave the premises. Remember, they were all in Catholic school and were "aware" of the authority that ran the school. I told them that I would worry about the consequences of them leaving the building under orders NOT to. I'd rather they were alive and in disciplinary trouble, then be a lemming and D-E-A-D.

. . . hmmm, your fire comment raises a question. Have you ever had to flee a burning building? You said fire but proximity wise, how much did it impact you? :bandit:

 

[darrenf]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I left my parents, brother and his family in a condo unit during one fire (NOT a false alarm). .

. . . hmmm, your fire comment raises a question. Have you ever been in a fire? Have you ever had to flee a burning building? :bandit:

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Now you are adding a third term, Panic Attack, that does not correspond to the first two in question. Just go back to Wikipedia and look up Panic, and Fight or Flight. You'll (hopefully) see they are not synonymous. If that doesn't do it for you, nothing I say could either.

Panic:an overwhelming feeling of fear and anxiety;sudden mass fear and anxiety over anticipated events;

Panic attack: A sudden experience of fear, often accompanied by the physiological "fight or flight" response

Fight or flight: The body's first reaction to perceived stress

How would you use panic in a sentence then? Is it WRONG to have a fight or flight response in any of the situations I have described? Is it wrong it have a panic attack in any of the situations I have described?

Do you think panic is an acceptable response (whether it is involuntary or not) to a situation in which you do not know the details, such as whether your life is in danger?

Would you teach your children that panic, while part of a human "fight or flight" response, is acceptable when they see something out of the ordinary?

If you were bleeding to death, would you want someone to PANIC, or dial 911 and remain calm but vigilant for your health?

Would you PANIC or have a PANIC response if you were driving down a freeway and someone attempted to make a lane change into your vehicle?

 

[MFT1Air]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Notice how I redirected the question to gather more details? That wasn't a kneejerk reaction from you, was it? :banghead: (Quick to find fault are we?)

I think her answer is going to validate a point about "freakin' out" with fear and paranoia vice analyzing a situation and reacting calmly and appropriately.

 

[cool92092]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Panic Response != Flight Response
is that so hard to see? No one is advocating Panic here. Natural human response to get the filtered out of there.

Oh if your villages don't have buildings with more than a couple of floors it is reasonable to inform you that there are different views of said airplane from different angles in different buildings around the city!

This

Needs some

 

[Qgar]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Notice how I redirected the question to gather more details? That wasn't a kneejerk reaction from you, was it? :banghead: (Quick to find fault are we?)

I think her answer is going to validate a point about "freakin' out" with fear and paranoia vice analyzing a situation and reacting calmly and appropriately.

I'm not sure what you want from me. Your original question as to "proximity" leads me to believe you would wait until finding out how close we were to a fire BEFORE acting. Sorry but that is foolish, at best.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

Panic Response != Flight Response
is that so hard to see? No one is advocating Panic here. Natural human response to get the filtered out of there.

Oh if your villages don't have buildings with more than a couple of floors it is reasonable to inform you that there are different views of said airplane from different angles in different buildings around the city!

I asked if someone would panic and I never got an answer - I didn't even care about fight or flight response. DarrenF is advocating panic.

I don't think fight or flight response is a good idea either. Any of those terms implies you are leaving rational thinking behind and just reacting to a perceived threat, which, in this case didn't exist. I don't think that reacting without thinking is a good idea.