President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks out

Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

cencal83406 said:
Is it self preserving to calmly observe something out of the ordinary, get into a heightened state of alert, and contemplate your options, or, see something you don't understand, run around screaming "I know it is a hijacking!!" and freak out?

Just because you are worried about a repeat doesn't mean it's right to scream fire in a crowded theatre.
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Where did I say someone should freak out. I thought we were discussing people acting as if it was a hijacking, and taking the required actions? Is it self preserving to assume everything is fine and go about your business normally when the information you have is very limited? Have you people ever been to a city? How long do you think a low flying aircraft is in your field of view??? :confused:

And if I am just concerned with SELF preservation, I am not going to scream FIRE in a theater, I will quietly get myself to the exit. ;)
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

cencal83406 said:
Is it self preserving to calmly observe something out of the ordinary, get into a heightened state of alert, and contemplate your options, or, see something you don't understand, run around screaming "I know it is a hijacking!!" and freak out?

Just because you are worried about a repeat doesn't mean it's right to scream fire in a crowded theatre.
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Lol, how many Chuck Norris' are on this board?
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

DarrenF, Pullup and Baronman should all be banned from the Man Club. You're obviously testosterone-challenged. How do you guys look in the mirror every day? Sheesh.








:sarcasm:
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

I don't know.... I just think panic is the wrong response to this incident. An anecdote: A few weeks after the Columbine Massacre, I was stretching in preparation for tennis class in high school, when some old beater pickup drove down the street near the courts. It had a NASTY case of backfire and went "bang..... bang...... bang...... bang" as it drove by. Reasonable response? Everyone just chill in your classrooms, lay low, we'll have the Irvine Police stationed at the school go check out the source along with the school's private security. Actual response? The ENTIRE school pours out, teachers, administrators, security, and students, TOWARD the sound of the backfire. If this had been a real event, the 2500+ student body and those in charge just put themselves in a whole crapload of danger.

By the same token - a panic response to something out of the ordinary may lead to a worsened situation.
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

cencal83406 said:
I don't know.... I just think panic is the wrong response to this incident. An anecdote: A few weeks after the Columbine Massacre, I was stretching in preparation for tennis class in high school, when some old beater pickup drove down the street near the courts. It had a NASTY case of backfire and went "bang..... bang...... bang...... bang" as it drove by. Reasonable response? Everyone just chill in your classrooms, lay low, we'll have the Irvine Police stationed at the school go check out the source along with the school's private security. Actual response? The ENTIRE school pours out, teachers, administrators, security, and students, TOWARD the sound of the backfire. If this had been a real event, the 2500+ student body and those in charge just put themselves in a whole crapload of danger.

By the same token - a panic response to something out of the ordinary may lead to a worsened situation.
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Hmm, seems you had more information then the people in the school, no?
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

cencal83406 said:
Okay, so you understand why people would run toward the source of gunshots? Makes a whole lot of sense to me...:rolleyes:
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Because it is SO easy to determine where the shots are coming from when you are sitting in a building. :rolleyes:

We get it cencal, you know it all, and your tougher then the rest of us. Congrats. :whatever:
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

cencal83406 said:
Okay, so you understand why people would run toward the source of gunshots? Makes a whole lot of sense to me...:rolleyes:
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My guess is 99.9% didn't know where the shots were from but were told to get out NOW!!! We are animals, we have a fight or flight instinct. If people don't have the training to deal with certain situations their only instinct is to get away and save themselves.
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

pullup said:
My guess is 99.9% didn't know where the shots were from but were told to get out NOW!!! We are animals, we have a fight or flight instinct. If people don't have the training to deal with certain situations their only instinct is to get away and save themselves.
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815575_pussy.jpg
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

MFT1Air said:
Excuse me, but WHERE IS THERE? At what distance from the events of 9/11 should a "reasonable" person not be concerned? A block? A mile? Crosstown? Trenton, NJ?



Concern? Yes! Raised eyebrows? Yes! Fear/freakin' out? I thought I was a reasonable person, but please. . .from anoher reasonable person, you tell me.
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I'm not trying to get you upset(not saying you are). That wasn't my point in my post. 1st point- No one can measure where in the country you were when 9/11 happened and how it affected you. I'm a NYC boy that happened to know quite a few persons that were down there. That is one day I'll never forget because it was my backyard. I use to ride the subway all the time and transfer at that stop (WTC) to get to work. 2nd point- Trying to reason someone's fear/concerns etc is not up to me or you. There are still people today who struggle with their daily routines because of that day.
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

darrenf said:
Because it is SO easy to determine where the shots are coming from when you are sitting in a building. :rolleyes:

We get it cencal, you know it all, and your tougher then the rest of us. Congrats. :whatever:
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Well, we all know how these people reacted. You understand their actions based on past events they went through.

Do you think that panic is an appropriate response to any situation, life-threatening or not?
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

cencal83406 said:
Well, we all know how these people reacted. You understand their actions based on past events they went through.

Do you think that panic is an appropriate response to any situation, life-threatening or not?
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Appropriate or productive? And guess what, when someone is in danger, the only thing preventing panic is training, or information. Guess which was lacking in this case?
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

pullup said:
My guess is 99.9% didn't know where the shots were from but were told to get out NOW!!! We are animals, we have a fight or flight instinct. If people don't have the training to deal with certain situations their only instinct is to get away and save themselves.
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No, our brilliant administration didn't issue any orders, and no teachers did either. It was all curiousity that led them out there.
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

darrenf said:
Appropriate or productive?
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Answer both questions then.... I don't ever think panic is an appropriate response.

I don't think panic is ever a productive response.

Panic essentially is shutting down the thought part of the brain.

If these people are truly concerned, day to day, that there could be an attack with aircraft, would it not stand to reason that they had formulated an organized plan of evacution. Such plans exist for natural disasters etc.
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

cencal83406 said:
Answer both questions then.... I don't ever think panic is an appropriate response.

I don't think panic is ever a productive response.

Panic essentially is shutting down the thought part of the brain.

If these people are truly concerned, day to day, that there could be an attack with aircraft, would it not stand to reason that they had formulated an organized plan of evacution. Such plans exist for natural disasters etc.
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So you are saying they didn't execute their plans of evacuation? I thought that was what they were being criticized for. :confused: Just like your school friends.
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

darrenf said:
So you are saying they didn't execute their plans of evacuation? I thought that was what they were being criticized for. :confused: Just like your school friends.
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An evacuation plan doesn't include the phrase "panic". And I have no idea whether there are evacuation plans for "aircraft as missile attack".

According to the reports, there was a "mass panic", not a precautionary evacuation much like DC does every time a 172 strays into P airspace.

I think that panic is wrong. I also think that evacuating without knowing more is wrong. Does your family run outside the door when the smoke alarms go off making dinner?
 
Re: President's Jet buzzes Lady Liberty; Manhattan freaks ou

darrenf said:
:banghead:

Nope, but the media used the phrase, so that must be what everyone in NY did, right??
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Everybody panicked," said Daisy Cooper, a Merrill Lynch worker in Jersey City, who lost a nephew on 9/11. "Everybody was screaming and we all ran downstairs. I'm devastated. ..Everybody was running, we didn't know why we were running."
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Why would you blindly go about running away when you have NO IDEA why everyone is doing something. Why do passengers open emergency doors and jump on the ground when they see flames coming from an engine at the gate, even though the flight attendants are issuing clear instructions. P A N I C. Not smart.

And by the way, you never answered my question, you just countered with more arguments for me....

Do you think panic is an acceptable response (whether it is involuntary or not) to a situation in which you do not know the details, such as whether your life is in danger?

Would you teach your children that panic, while part of a human "fight or flight" response, is acceptable when they see something out of the ordinary?

If you were bleeding to death, would you want someone to PANIC, or dial 911 and remain calm but vigilant for your health?

Would you PANIC or have a PANIC response if you were driving down a freeway and someone attempted to make a lane change into your vehicle?
 
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