Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Status
Not open for further replies.
Been instructing all day, just heard the bad news this morning... RIP to all unfortunate victims, I'm sorry for your loss to anyone who knew the crew or jumpseater.
 
JEP said:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001206X02420&ntsbno=DCA95MA001&akey=1

Roselawn Accident
Click to expand...

Also reminds me of this roll upset incident, except this was at FL170: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020124X00119&key=1

"..airplane then pitched down and rolled about 80 degrees to the left, then rolled back to near level....airplane rolled about 110 degrees to the left, returned to level flight, rolled about 130 degrees to the right, returned to level flight, then rolled 360 degrees to the right before returning to near wings level.....consistent with an ice-induced stall event."
 
flying_ME said:
I am a frequent lurker, just a private pilot, and not much drives me to want to post, but wow... just wow. In this day an age of anonymous tough guy internet forum garbage, the level of support and caring from this website is simply amazing. I am truly blown away.
Click to expand...

Well, some of my best friends are Colganites and whenever we have a meet and greet, I know I'm going to make x-amount of new friends and people to hang out with.

Luckily, we attract good people and generally scare away the "I'm an anonymous poster and I have massive donger and I'm going to scream at you all about it"-type users that a lot of other sites have.

I don't want us to be the biggest site on the aviation internet, just the best and you guys make it happen.
 
sopdan said:
The mic would have to be keyed up for any sound to be heard by ATC. In a situation such as this, talking on the radio takes a back seat to everything else that needs to be done.
Click to expand...

How about just a Mayday call as the problem is being dealt with at whatever degree of focus. This whole "silence" thing is bothering me a great deal. Am I the only one hear having a problem with the silence?

I hope the CVR details at least something, but according to ATC thus far, they were just five miles out and then...nothing. Silence.
 
Approach Control said:
How about just a Mayday call as the problem is being dealt with at whatever degree of focus. This whole "silence" thing is bothering me a great deal. Am I the only one hear having a problem with the silence?

I hope the CVR details at least something, but according to ATC thus far, they were just five miles out and then...nothing. Silence.
Click to expand...
Aviate Navigate Communicate. Some of the first things an aviator learns. Sorry, but they had bigger fish to try to fry than letting ATC know what is happening. Besides, if things got as ugly as they possibly did on this flight, you would be in self-preservation mode and not worried about ATC at this point.
 
Stone Cold said:
Aviate Navigate Communicate. Some of the first things an aviator learns. Sorry, but they had bigger fish to try to fry than letting ATC know what is happening. Besides, if things got as ugly as they possibly did on this flight, you would be in self-preservation mode and not worried about ATC at this point.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Those infamous mayday calls to ATC from doomed airliners typically occured at altitude. If I remember correctly Colgan 3407 was at or around 2k...correct me if I'm wrong. A near verticle fall from that altitude barely gave them time to assess the situation. :(

And yes, the simliarities to the Roselawn accident will more than likely prompt the NTSB to look at the findings of that accident and compare it to this one.
 
I just wanted to come out of hiding to give my deepest sympathies to all the members of the Colgan family here on JC. Like many of you, this accident has left me feeling a little more upset than others. Please stay safe up there everyone. To those of you that knew the victims of the crash, please take the time you need to get over this terrible loss. Try to remember that they are at peace now. Life is short in the grand scheme of things. Enjoy every day of it. Take care of each other.
 
Approach Control said:
How about just a Mayday call as the problem is being dealt with at whatever degree of focus. This whole "silence" thing is bothering me a great deal. Am I the only one hear having a problem with the silence?

I hope the CVR details at least something, but according to ATC thus far, they were just five miles out and then...nothing. Silence.
Click to expand...

At that point I wouldn't even know what ATC Is. Imagine the shock you'd be in since you aren't expecting it...
 
This is extremely sad - RIP to the passengers, crew and the one on the ground. The support shown here on JC is outstanding. I'm a relatively new member, mostly lurking, Doug - you've got an awesome site with great people.

Guys, try to cut "Approach Control" some slack, he isn't a pilot yet so he isn't quite aware of everything that would have been going on in that situation, and how communicating with ATC would have taken a back seat. Him having not been exposed to much flying in that type of environment, I can see why he'd be questioning the silence.
 
Approach Control said:
How about just a Mayday call as the problem is being dealt with at whatever degree of focus. This whole "silence" thing is bothering me a great deal. Am I the only one hear having a problem with the silence?

I hope the CVR details at least something, but according to ATC thus far, they were just five miles out and then...nothing. Silence.
Click to expand...

OK, since you are not a pilot I will give you the very first lesson that student pilots learn: no one can help you on the ground. It is absolutely pointless to talk on the radio for any reason while you are wrestling an airplane and trying to prevent your own death. This comes from years of experience with various emergencies including engine and control system failures.
 
Velocipede said:
YGBSM. These two pilots are fighting to save an airplane that's out of control. And they probably had less than 30 seconds to do it.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I'm thinking about the same time frame, 20-30 seconds from their altitude.

My heart goes out to all those at Colgan, the family members and friends of the victims.
 
Capt. Caucasian said:
OK, since you are not a pilot I will give you the very first lesson that student pilots learn: no one can help you on the ground. It is absolutely pointless to talk on the radio for any reason while you are wrestling an airplane and trying to prevent your own death. This comes from years of experience with various emergencies including engine and control system failures.
Click to expand...
Not quite true; once upon a time someone posted the ATC tape of a VFR-only private pilot who got himself into IMC, then with ATC trying to talk him back out of it, managed to stall and spin the aircraft while still in IMC. The controller was also a licensed pilot and in the midst of the pilot screaming bloody murder managed to get in verbal instructions to recover from the spin.

Not that a controller would be of as much help to a Pt 121 crew in a situation like this, but to say unequivocally that "no one can help you on the ground" is not a true statement.
 
aloft said:
Not quite true; once upon a time someone posted the ATC tape of a VFR-only private pilot who got himself into IMC, then with ATC trying to talk him back out of it, managed to stall and spin the aircraft while still in IMC. The controller was also a licensed pilot and in the midst of the pilot screaming bloody murder managed to get in verbal instructions to recover from the spin.

Not that a controller would be of as much help to a Pt 121 crew in a situation like this, but to say unequivocally that "no one can help you on the ground" is not a true statement.
Click to expand...


That tape scares the crap out of me... I'm surprised the controller could get a word in with that guy hollering
 
Firebird2XC said:
To further back up what Velo said-

In times like this it's normal to feel bad and feel shocked. You might feel a slightly surreal sense of detachment from your perceived surroundings. Maybe even a bit like life is a movie playing on a screen in front of your face and just swimming around you.

You might also be spiked on adrenaline and anger, or just feel sad, sullen, and depressed. Either way, you feel a little more distant from the world around you than normal.

Stop and take an honest assessment of how you really feel, and then SLOW DOWN.

Times like this make it difficult to understand one's true state of mind, but you may not be as composed as you think you are.
Click to expand...

I was airborne this morning long before the above was posted, but it describes pretty well what I experienced after I settled down into cruise. Great post.
 
Don't know what to say after reading the whole thread on all the sites and watching the NTSB and the airline releases. I guess I hate the media, I need to explain to 40 different office employees the tragedy that this is... RIP. Long week, take care everybody.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top