Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407
- Thread starter dakovich
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WacoFan
Bigly
Wow - that guy needs a blanket party in the worst way.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I read that, and a little piece of me died inside.
coa787
Unknown Member
I didn't get any further than the first page.
Now, Now everyone just calm down. Im sure he has a good explanation for what he said on his blog...Im sure he wouldnt mind it if someone goes to his house and asks a few questions.
After a little research on the internet I think his address is <...>
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
His stuff about military pay, and the holocaust is pretty disgusting too. Avoid it lest you contemplate murder.
N826AW
Well-Known Member
He's searching for his relevancy in the world. Unfortunately for him, there is none. Not to mention he calls himself the "Pride of South Jersey." Which is a total slap in the face to those members of the Colgan family who hail from this great place and strive to make aviation a better place.
X-Forces
Big Black Guy
Why bother?
The comments are simply, and obviously, intentional wind-ups.
People like this are only empowered when others pay attention to them. Ignore them and they go away.
ladder360
Well-Known Member
Doug is absolutely right here. By acknowledging it, you are in a sense giving him fuel. Ignoring it is to snuff it. 'nuff said.
E_Dawg
Moderator
FIRST, let me stress I am NOT assuming the cause of this particular accident.
With the news media currently focusing on aircraft icing I am wondering:
What is the DEAL with ice and turboprops????
Obviously turboprops are down in the weather for a greater proportion of flight time than jets. But most accidents I remember hearing about have happened in the approach phase.
Just a very vague and quite possibly incorrect observation, but it appears the majority of icing accidents in jets occur in the takeoff phase, and the majority of those in turboprops occur in the approach phase. It also would appear that a greater proportion of icing accidents occur in turboprops than jets.
Anyone able to shed some light??
With the news media currently focusing on aircraft icing I am wondering:
What is the DEAL with ice and turboprops????
Obviously turboprops are down in the weather for a greater proportion of flight time than jets. But most accidents I remember hearing about have happened in the approach phase.
Just a very vague and quite possibly incorrect observation, but it appears the majority of icing accidents in jets occur in the takeoff phase, and the majority of those in turboprops occur in the approach phase. It also would appear that a greater proportion of icing accidents occur in turboprops than jets.
Anyone able to shed some light??
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
Well, as I'm sure you know, most jets have a much more effective ice protection system than the inflatable boots found on recips and turboprops. Most jet designs have enough excess thrust to allow very hot bleed air from the "high pressure compressor" stages of the engines to be tapped and piped directly to the wings and/or stabilizers, all simultaneously (as long as all engines are operating anyway). Those polished metal surfaces you see on the leading edge of jet wings and stabilizers contain tubes through which this hot air flows and disperses througout the forward sectoin of the airfoils. This hot surface heats the air as it flows over the airfoils, melting accreted ice and preventing additional ice from forming.
Conversely, most turboprops rely on pneumatic boots that inflate to "break the ice". In the case of the Dash 8 I've heard it happens one at a time.....for instance left wing boot activates, then right wing, then stabilizer, etc. I can only assume this is because most turboprop designs aren't capable of producing enough hot bleed air to use the typical jet ice protection designs.
Why would jets encounter problems on takeoff? The fan air intake on a turbofan produces a large pressure drop due to rapid acceleration of the air as it is sucked in. This produces a carbeurator-like temperature reduction which can be catastrophic if Engine Anti-Ice is not selected on when visible moisture is present, even at tempratures well above freezing. Also, I can't speak for other operators, but we typically take off with the APU as the bleed source in our jet and it is not capable of providing enough hot air to opeate the ice protection sytem. This is done to avoid pressurization fluctuations due to variation engine thrust during takeoff and initial climb. If care is not taken to recognize icing conditions and select the engine bleeds open for takeoff, problems could occur. Once you're in the air however, the hot-wing system on most jets is quite effective.....I don't think I've ever seen ice on the leading edges after landing and I've flown in a fair bit of winter weather.
Although the turboprops' boots are enough in most situations, I can only speculate that those systems just aren't as effective as piping hot air directly to the surfaces. Perhaps this is why the jets coming into BUF that night did not experience catastrophic problems while this aircraft did. Don't get me wrong, even in a jet with a great ice protection system, you still avoid ice and get out of it ASAP when you encounter it.
The article itself was fine and an accurate reflection of the industry but I do understand why it bothered you. Writing an article focusing on the relative lack of experience with regional pilots and using a day old crash as the trigger for that article can be interpreted as an attempt to link the two, i.e. the plane crashed because there was a relatively inexperienced crew. The timing rather than the content is what's offensive.
We don't yet know what triggered the catastrophic ending of #3407 but one thing is certain. All the cockpit experience in the world won't help if there's not enough altitude to work with when the problem arises.
beechpilot
Well-Known Member
Yeah, stuff like that used to wind me up but given the fact that this person has no clue what they're talking about I just blew it off.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I thought the article was pretty accurate - and they never claimed that the accident was a result of less experience. But commenting that folks in the right seat barely make enough to live off of ... that sounds like good reporting to me.
JA Yawd Bwoy
Well-Known Member
RIP to all those involved
I woke up 4:30 yesterday morning and saw it on the news and immediately thought about Qgar, Snuggles, and Seggy simultaneously. I work with my dad doing best buy deliveries on the weekends and on the way to the Bronx for our first stop we passed by EWR and Ironically there was a Q400 taxing to the runway at around 6:30 I believe. We also passed over the G. Washington Bridge where you can look down exactly where Seggy put the US Airways flight down... This story is also gaining attention in JA as there was a Jamaican family arriving from MBJ-EWR-BUF, RIP to all those involved in the air/ground and thank God that no JC members were involved.
I woke up 4:30 yesterday morning and saw it on the news and immediately thought about Qgar, Snuggles, and Seggy simultaneously. I work with my dad doing best buy deliveries on the weekends and on the way to the Bronx for our first stop we passed by EWR and Ironically there was a Q400 taxing to the runway at around 6:30 I believe. We also passed over the G. Washington Bridge where you can look down exactly where Seggy put the US Airways flight down... This story is also gaining attention in JA as there was a Jamaican family arriving from MBJ-EWR-BUF, RIP to all those involved in the air/ground and thank God that no JC members were involved.- Status