HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
It's going to be funny next yr when they have to actually hire pilots again, so glad I ended up not going there...
Pinnacle 1113 Term Sheet to the Pilots
- Thread starter 3enginejock
- Start date
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
Next year? At the rate people have been/are bailing that could happen this year. Well, if we actually survive another month or two.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Good luck guys.
I really don't understand why management at these places really think people will be willing to sacrificed to "keep the brand alive." I could see sacrificing to keep a place like Google or Southwest alive where you actually feel like the company cares about you. But when you could be making more money doing...basically anything, what's the point? But here's to hoping you give them all a big middle finger.
If you don't, if it doesn't "all work out" and you have to make a lateral move, you're going to be back in the same boat. Don't doubt that management at every other airline are watching and will say "oh my god, that actually worked!?!?!" if it happens.
I really don't understand why management at these places really think people will be willing to sacrificed to "keep the brand alive." I could see sacrificing to keep a place like Google or Southwest alive where you actually feel like the company cares about you. But when you could be making more money doing...basically anything, what's the point? But here's to hoping you give them all a big middle finger.
If you don't, if it doesn't "all work out" and you have to make a lateral move, you're going to be back in the same boat. Don't doubt that management at every other airline are watching and will say "oh my god, that actually worked!?!?!" if it happens.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'd sooner sacrifice for Pinnacle.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
ATNpilot, you're correct, I was crazy for leaving 9E without TPIC time. I should have stayed and upgraded at 9E under those new term rates, and that upgrade was right around the corner.
None of this is surprising. I've always stated time and time again that regionals have shifted away from their true goal of being cheap, low cost outsourced feed. The regional model was not meant for guys making $100k+ and 18 days off. These new CRJ Captain rates of $54/r to $77/hr are worse than the 1999 contract, and a nod to what the regional model is trying to get back to be. FO longevity being reset to 0 for Captain upgrades reiterates the point that the company basically wants defacto street Captain equivalent. The only "STFD" crowd are those who can afford to STFD literally. Those with mortgage payments, wives (or ex wives), kids, etc, cannot afford to just go unemployed. Those who find a new job will go, but those who can't or haven't found one yet, even this new term scale is better than unemployment.
None of this is surprising. I've always stated time and time again that regionals have shifted away from their true goal of being cheap, low cost outsourced feed. The regional model was not meant for guys making $100k+ and 18 days off. These new CRJ Captain rates of $54/r to $77/hr are worse than the 1999 contract, and a nod to what the regional model is trying to get back to be. FO longevity being reset to 0 for Captain upgrades reiterates the point that the company basically wants defacto street Captain equivalent. The only "STFD" crowd are those who can afford to STFD literally. Those with mortgage payments, wives (or ex wives), kids, etc, cannot afford to just go unemployed. Those who find a new job will go, but those who can't or haven't found one yet, even this new term scale is better than unemployment.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
yeah, I thought about it after I typed that. The way you guys have been treated completely changed my opinion on that place. But those who are on the beachball side would give up a lot to see it keep going. Because apparently words speak louder than actions.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
I don't know which is better...PNCL folding (sucks for those who'd like it to stay around) or taking huge cuts but still not sending 1000+ guys to the street.
As a pilot currently in negotiations I can say that it worries me to think of what a low-bidding regional machine the new PNCL could be. Honestly after seeing the lastest PNCL and AE proposals, my own expectations for a contract have been lowered.
As a pilot currently in negotiations I can say that it worries me to think of what a low-bidding regional machine the new PNCL could be. Honestly after seeing the lastest PNCL and AE proposals, my own expectations for a contract have been lowered.
Example 2
A Captain on the 7-8 step is displaced to First Officer. The pilot will be placed at the
top of scale (3-4 YOS step for First Officer). After two (2) years, the pilot is promoted
to Captain. The pilot will be placed on the 0-1 step of the Captain scale.
Am I reading this correctly? If a CA is displaced to FO they will start over at the bottom of the scale when awarded another upgrade? How is this s*%# even legal. They could just furlough once every X years to reset CA longevity and re-hire FOs at 1st year pay.
Good luck. This nonsense almost makes me apprehensive about getting a new contract over here and being deemed "too expensive" in a year and a half.
A Captain on the 7-8 step is displaced to First Officer. The pilot will be placed at the
top of scale (3-4 YOS step for First Officer). After two (2) years, the pilot is promoted
to Captain. The pilot will be placed on the 0-1 step of the Captain scale.
Am I reading this correctly? If a CA is displaced to FO they will start over at the bottom of the scale when awarded another upgrade? How is this s*%# even legal. They could just furlough once every X years to reset CA longevity and re-hire FOs at 1st year pay.
Good luck. This nonsense almost makes me apprehensive about getting a new contract over here and being deemed "too expensive" in a year and a half.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
You're assuming those of us with families and mortgages aren't willing to leave aviation. Newsflash: we are. Lots of us. Look at all of them that have already left. I'll be nicer to you here than I was on that other board because you weren't as flat out insulting over here. As far as being better than unemployment, I just checked. It's not by much. As in after the pay, benefit and health care cost cuts, if I wound up back in the right seat, I'd make more as a glorified carnie working the rides at Sea World than a topped out FO at 9E. The health care benefits at Disney and Universal are lightyears BETTER than what our management just offered us. That's right. High school drop outs are better valued than pilots as far as 9E is concerned. Just look at the non-union employees. They're looking at 6% wage cut. I'm looking at about an 11%. Why should I be taking twice the pay cut of a ramper? I would be making less money than I was when I upgraded 4 years ago, and I'd be paying more in health insurance to boot. Wait. No I won't, because I will find a job outside aviation before I do this. At least I'll be home every night.
No per diem if you're gone for less than 24 hours? Here come the two days that start at 1 pm and end at noon the next day. Bingo. No per diem! Then they'll just stack two days next to each other. So, you'll work four days, no per diem, and it'll all be contractually compliant.
At some point, you have to hit your point of no return....even if you DO have a mortgage and a family. Most of the people I know that spout off like ------ here tend to have neither....
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
z987k
Well-Known Member
Wow. You guys should burn that •er down. Like said above, you'll make more on unemployment anyways.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
kell, I agree with your post, but not cool using someone's real name who hasn't "outed" himself on the forum.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
This just needs to be sent to a news agency. Who the F comes up with this crap? I mean seriously how vendictive are these people in management? I guess LRC is gonna be my max speed now to pay for the beating later. 
z987k
Well-Known Member
Screw that. 250kts just to make sure you don't break any FAR's.This just needs to be sent to a news agency. Who the F comes up with this crap? I mean seriously how vendictive are these people in management? I guess LRC is gonna be my max speed now to pay for the beating later.
Teller1900
Well-Known Member
Seriously! Some of those things aren't even money issues, they're just doing it to screw with the pilots. The company no longer has to post open time? How is that going to save them anything (unless they just don't want people to see that they're violating the "new" 1% open time rule, but that can't be their motive, could it!?)?This just needs to be sent to a news agency. Who the F comes up with this crap? I mean seriously how vendictive are these people in management? I guess LRC is gonna be my max speed now to pay for the beating later.
Teller1900
Well-Known Member
Don't forget to reduce to 200kts as soon as you enter Canadian airspace! They have different rules up there, remember.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Lol, 5 year FO upgrade to year 0 captain pay? Really?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Maybe, and I 'd go back and change it if it would let me. Edit feature seems to be gone after several hours.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
You know what happened today? Pilots asking for flight records. May be a record in number. Resignations were limited to those who were called with class dates in the next 2-3 weeks. I can only imagine those applying to other carriers today, that yesterday, were a "I would apply at XYZ if things went realy bad" I can't even count the FB friends posting about applying, many well over 1000TJPIC that said they were planning on staying for family/QOL.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with "outing" someone. Does anyone really think the Internet is anonymous? I like knowing who the guy is so I can look out for him. He's probably a great guy who I'd drink beer with on a layover. We could talk about Jet U and how unions suck. Good times...
