Pilots -- Things Controller's Say That Annoy You.

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Lets figure a closure rate of 550 knots (not a high rate for most traffic at the altitude) that would be 1.89 minutes before your targets merge.

In other words, about 1.88 seconds after I stop looking and go back to reading my USAToday.

 

[derg]

Nah, keep calling traffic 20 miles out for sure.

Personally, I'd rather put down the Esquire, be on the lookout and aware because the other aircraft is little over a minute away rather than "Delta 123, opposite direction traffic 12 o'clock 2 miles, VFR target...Umm, can you recycle your transponder? Delta 123, Albuquerque Center... Can anyone ring up Delta on company and have him squawk ident?"

Yeah, that's a little over-dramatic, but the more info the better.

 

[Alchemy]

Any transmission with more than 3 instructions/advisories. More than in a single transmission and I'm probably not going to get it all without a notepad at the ready.

Getting cross if we miss one radio call. If I let it bother me everytime ATC missed one I'd have jumped off a cliff a long time ago.

Turning me for a njacapt's citation the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

But overall ATC does an exceptional job everywhere in north america that I've flown ('cept maybe some spots in mexico that have a penchant for last second approach changes at night, during bad weather, in the mountains, but that's another story).

 

[docflyer]

Funniest thing I ever had was departing ABQ...

Me: ABQ tower, Jetlink XXXX, 21, ready to go..

Tower: Jetlink XXXX, flying heading 210, cleared for takeoff, caution wake turbulence, departing Pilatus.

Got almost the same thing departing SAN. I was in the pilatus though

KSAN Tower: Pilatus NXXXX, runway 27, cleared for takeoff.
Me: Cleared for takeoff, runway 27.
KSAN Tower: Southwest XXX, runway 27, cleared to land, caution wake turbulence departing pilatus. (the controller chuckled while he said "pilatus" when we realized what he was saying)

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

"Taxi to 16, hold short of Alpha"

Alpha being the only taxiway. They usually do this when they want us to just give way to traffic coming down the taxiway. Why not just say "Hold short of Alpha"? The "taxi to 16" part is confusing to student/foreign pilots, which we have a lot of.

 

[Stone Cold]

In other words, about 1.88 seconds after I stop looking and go back to reading my USAToday.

Ahh, the guy preaching professionalism, and then saying he's reading a paper when a traffic advisory has been issued to him.

I agree with Doug...give me the advisory, please. Thank you.

Turning me for a njacapt's citation the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I know you have a smilie there, but that's not supposed to be the way ATC handles traffic. First come first served, and the most expeditious way; do those ring a bell?

"Taxi to 16, hold short of Alpha"

Alpha being the only taxiway. They usually do this when they want us to just give way to traffic coming down the taxiway. Why not just say "Hold short of Alpha"? The "taxi to 16" part is confusing to student/foreign pilots, which we have a lot of.

They are required to issue you the runway to taxi to. If it confuses your students, please read the AIM with them some more. Thanks!!

 

[Polar742]

In my short time flying "over there", I've learned to appreciate the american ATC system and all it's idosyncracies.

Nothing like a mush-mouthed Chinese controller on the late shift at the People's Radar Shack vectoring you to intercept the LOC (if you don't have to fly the whole procedure) then forgetting to tell you, as the only airplane in the area, to join the LOC and cleared for the approach.

And very few traffic advisiories. Nothing like a whale 1000' up or down passing under you without warning.

It even makes the bitchy lady that faces planes nose to nose, then yell at them for following her instructions on LGA ground seem reasonable.

MAD props to the LGA controllers. Ya'll put alot of tin through a small space.

 

[whysoserial]

"Taxi to 16, hold short of Alpha"

Alpha being the only taxiway. They usually do this when they want us to just give way to traffic coming down the taxiway. Why not just say "Hold short of Alpha"? The "taxi to 16" part is confusing to student/foreign pilots, which we have a lot of.

First thing is if that is exactly the way they are saying it...they are using incorrect phraseology. There's no such thing as "Taxi to runway 16, hold short of A." It's supposed to be "Runway 16, Taxi, hold short of A." Or at maybe an airport with more than one taxiway. "Runway 11, taxi via A, hold short of B."

Doesn't mean it's not confusing that way either but if we say it, it's not to confuse you. It's the way it is...if they get confused...work with them to understand it...it's standard phraseology. Plus...your on the ground...you can always stop and clarify but nothing should be confusing with one taxiway. If they can't handle a simple taxi instruction...what the f? I used to instruct...I know these things. Taxiing an airplane on an airport with instructions is sometimes more challenging than flying the thing (I'm being serious), not a lot of time is spent on ground operations anymore and it's showing. We have a lot of foreign activity at our airport...doesn't mean we retreat to crap phraseology. If they keep getting it wrong, we correct them and with construction going on at our airport this taxi phraseology has come into effect. At first they were confused...but now they are fine. We didn't change our wording.

Now, sometimes we say that because later on it makes our work easier. If I tell someone Runway 11, taxi via A hold short of B...when it's time for them to continue all I need to say is "Continue taxing" or "Cross B". The hold short doesn't make the original 'taxi to runway' part disappear so I don't need to give another taxi to runway speech.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Ahh, the guy preaching professionalism, and then saying he's reading a paper when a traffic advisory has been issued to him.

You really need to lighten up, little man.

 

[JDE]

Funniest thing I ever had was departing ABQ...

Me: ABQ tower, Jetlink XXXX, 21, ready to go..

Tower: Jetlink XXXX, flying heading 210, cleared for takeoff, caution wake turbulence, departing Pilatus.

My favorite leaving ABQ right behind an F/A-18:

Tower: Citation 8RT follow noise abatement, cleared for takeoff Runway 8.

 

[Stone Cold]

You really need to lighten up, little man.

Oh, I am very happy, thank you very much. Is there a problem?

No need to resort to personal insults, when I was merely pointing out the statement you made and the irony of it.

 

[ljg]

"Slow to your final approach speed."

 

[TurdBird]

Going into KPMP-

Tower: Cessna 123...umm... You are no longer cleared to land. Start your go around, extend your upwind to the shore, and report turning a left crosswind for runway 10.

Me: (thinking to myself, WTF? ) Cessna 123, going around, will extend upwind to the shore and report a left crosswind for runway 10.

Tower: Goodyear 1 Alpha, fly your straight in. Cleared to land. Traffic will be extending his upwind to the shore.

I know how the regs work but I can't help but think to myself... "I WAS HERE FIRST YOU FAT ARSE!"

 

[meritflyer]

No need to resort to personal insults, when I was merely pointing out the statement you made and the irony of it.

No kidding...

 

[FlyOrDie]

It makes for an annoying ride for passengers and constant power/configuration changes for the crew (inefficient). It would be more beneficial if the planes capable of climbing 6000fpm were not held down behind planes that can barely make 500fpm. Level the slow climber and allow the faster/better climbing aircraft to get out of town.
It's like the kid on the moped riding in the traffic lane. Pulling him (slow guy) to the side isn't making as big a difference in his travel time as the cars that he is holding up.

Well said.

I speak for the 500fpm or less crowd and for some reason ATC doesn't realize that its more efficient to send us out low and keep us out of the way of everyone else.

In ANC the controllers are big on departure gates, they will get a 10 degree heading change for us to fly through the gate. Why send literally the slowest AC out a main gate?

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

They are required to issue you the runway to taxi to. If it confuses your students, please read the AIM with them some more. Thanks!!

Maybe you misunderstood my situation. There is only 1 taxiway, taxiway alpha that allows you to taxi parallel to the runway. The other taxiways are intersections that run perpendicular.

My question is, why issue the taxi clearance at all?

First thing is if that is exactly the way they are saying it...they are using incorrect phraseology. There's no such thing as "Taxi to runway 16, hold short of A." It's supposed to be "Runway 16, Taxi, hold short of A." Or at maybe an airport with more than one taxiway. "Runway 11, taxi via A, hold short of B."

If there is only one taxi way, why issue the clearance in the first place?

Now, sometimes we say that because later on it makes our work easier. If I tell someone Runway 11, taxi via A hold short of B...when it's time for them to continue all I need to say is "Continue taxing" or "Cross B". The hold short doesn't make the original 'taxi to runway' part disappear so I don't need to give another taxi to runway speech.

I get that, if there is more than one taxi way involved. They usually comeback and just say "N1234M, taxi to 16" after the other aircraft clears.


Thanks for the insight!

 

[mjg407]

In my short time flying "over there", I've learned to appreciate the american ATC system and all it's idosyncracies.

Nothing like a mush-mouthed Chinese controller on the late shift at the People's Radar Shack vectoring you to intercept the LOC (if you don't have to fly the whole procedure) then forgetting to tell you, as the only airplane in the area, to join the LOC and cleared for the approach.

And very few traffic advisiories. Nothing like a whale 1000' up or down passing under you without warning.

I agree 100%! I could swear a few times in the middle east that the controller had to be sleeping and we woke them up.

 

[whysoserial]

Maybe you misunderstood my situation. There is only 1 taxiway, taxiway alpha that allows you to taxi parallel to the runway. The other taxiways are intersections that run perpendicular.

My question is, why issue the taxi clearance at all?



If there is only one taxi way, why issue the clearance in the first place?



I get that, if there is more than one taxi way involved. They usually comeback and just say "N1234M, taxi to 16" after the other aircraft clears.


Thanks for the insight!

Well, with this new FAA procedure. We are required to give you 'detailed taxi instructions'...in other words...we are now required to give all aircraft progressive taxi instructions. If an aircraft is on Bravo and the only way he can get to parking is by using Bravo we say "Taxi to parking via Bravo". Silly? Yes. More radio congestion? Yes. More confusing to pilots? Yes. Do I feel dumb saying it? Yes.

I have yet to see any waiver from this procedure such as one for airports with one taxiway.

Whatever the case, they are just trying to get you moving somehow probably.

 

[ppragman]

You know what really gets me? When you're vfr, you need to change freqs to keep from having to circle outside, and the controller tells you to "remain this frequency, for a minute" because traffic is 7 miles away and couldn't possibly be a factor.

 

[cime_sp]

My favorite is "traffic 2 miles ahead, you have a 50 kt overtake slow to minimum speed..." Of course this only happens when we're at 147kts in the CRJ and can't go any slower without falling out of the sky!