Paying your dues.

BravoHotel

BravoHotel

Well-Known Member
Please forgive me while I light a dumpster fire.

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I received a TBNT email from a company I applied to, okay not the end of the world. I enlisted the services of a interview prep place to improve my interview skills. I was talking to a long time acquaintance about the situation and I was told I had a bad attitude and I needed to go "pay my dues." What exactly is that, what have I been doing all these years? (skydive pilot, overseas contract pilot, current 135 charter pilot)

I am trying to get a consensus of what exactly it means to "pay your dues." Go to regional and eat ramen (although with their bonuses you can afford the fancy ramen now) for a couple of years. Get that magic 121 time? Commute to a crashpad to sit reserve across the country?
 
mrivc211 said:
More info would be needed to give feedback. Whats your experience level, what kind of job did you apply too etc.
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Fair enough: ATP, ~3400 total pilot time, I fly a BE-350 and applied to a popular fractional company and a not top 2 cargo company.
 
I can't speak for the fractional world, but on the legacy 121 side, paying your dues means going to a regional. It's kind of dumb, but I guess you are less of a training risk if you've already been through that style of training.

The phrase itself though means nothing. Same as "keep doing what you are doing" and "it is what it is".
 
BravoHotel said:
Fair enough: ATP, ~3400 total pilot time, I fly a BE-350 and applied to a popular fractional company and a not top 2 cargo company.
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ok, that doesn't seem too far fetched. In fact, you're probably well qualified in todays market. Maybe you just got turned down. I got turned down at WN in 2007 with 5000 TT and 2500 TPIC. Throw 10 darts at a wall, 1-2 will stick.
 
BravoHotel said:
Please forgive me while I light a dumpster fire.

View attachment 63280

I received a TBNT email from a company I applied to, okay not the end of the world. I enlisted the services of a interview prep place to improve my interview skills. I was talking to a long time acquaintance about the situation and I was told I had a bad attitude and I needed to go "pay my dues." What exactly is that, what have I been doing all these years? (skydive pilot, overseas contract pilot, current 135 charter pilot)

I am trying to get a consensus of what exactly it means to "pay your dues." Go to regional and eat ramen (although with their bonuses you can afford the fancy ramen now) for a couple of years. Get that magic 121 time? Commute to a crashpad to sit reserve across the country?
Click to expand...

If you want to go 121, go 121. Regionals are paying a lot of money these days. A little seniority makes it a piece of cake compared to 135 in a turboprop.
 
SteveC said:
The part that caught my attention was "I was told I had a bad attitude". That can be taken a few different ways, and may or may not be pertinent.
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Interviewed with a guys once that exuded the ‘my shizz don’t stink attitude’ and guess what…he didn’t get hired and later that night at the bar was still saying “man I can’t believe they didn’t hire me”. Some people never learn.

To the OP, having been on both sides of the hiring table there are a myriad of reasons why these thing don’t work out sometimes. As far as the ‘attitude’ remark I think Steve touches on an important point. Could be something, could be nothing but might be worth some consideration especially in the smaller fractional world.

Some will always insist if you didn’t sit sideways at a panel, sling gear in a TWA Constellation or nearly die a thousand times teaching people how to fly you haven’t paid your dues. Whatever, we all have our paths make it your own and keep grinding toward your goal.
 
SteveC said:
The part that caught my attention was "I was told I had a bad attitude". That can be taken a few different ways, and may or may not be pertinent.
Click to expand...

My reluctance, hesitation, and lack of desire to go to a regional.

I only had one cup of coffee when I wrote the topic.
 
BravoHotel said:
I am trying to get a consensus of what exactly it means to "pay your dues.
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It doesn’t mean anything.

it’s a phrase to get you to accept sub par working conditions while you’re a low time pilot.

having “paid my dues” for basics my whole career, just to have it all evaporate for health reasons after 14 years here’s what I recommend:

1. Don’t accept being treated like crap. Whether it’s pay, or benes, or anything else. Don’t accept it.
2. It’s 2022 now, be ruthless in your quest for “more money and more time off.” Until you make it to a great job. Then understand that even a great job still is likely temporary. Don’t go hog wild once you do finally make good cash.
3. If you really like what you do, it’s ok to sacrifice pay and maybe time off, but understand sacrificing either isn’t sustainable. Regardless - there’s more to this job than the money for some - if you find something you like or find fulfillment in, revel in it.
4. Only have one partner, and if you can try to live off his or her income. That way you’re never “enslaved” to your work. The second you need both jobs, you’re immensely vulnerable.
5. Divorce is • expensive - your partner and kids are more important than your flying job. I made my family the priority over my career when we got married - it probably set me back career wise, but my life is better for it.

Regardless, at the end of the day, don’t “pay your dues” unless there is no other choice. Aggressively pursue the best deal you can possibly get if you don’t love what you’re doing. If you do love what you’re doing still don’t eat • for your employer.
 
Oh also, don’t be a •, be a good person, treat others politely, and do the right thing first and foremost.

When I was involved in hiring people I cared less about the resume (other than the minimum requirements) and more about if I could tolerate working with this person and if they could learn “our way” of doing things.
 
Pay your dues usually means one of two things depending on the source. If it’s coming from a decent person who’s trying to help you out, it means you gotta follow a certain path to earn it. If it’s coming from a cranky boomer, it means they believe you should suffer exactly as much as they have to get where they are for…..basically no reason. And of course, they remember their hard work in an exaggerated manner, while they conveniently forget their father in law got them the job.
 
SteveC said:
Understood.
If you were to speculate, why do you think you might have received the TBNT?
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How I presented my speed bump at QX, (I resigned after six months on the training merry go around as they called it) almost five years ago now ranks #1. I answered their questions in a manner I thought was neutral, but post research leads me to believe this is the case.
 
ppragman said:
Oh also, don’t be a •, be a good person, treat others politely, and do the right thing first and foremost.

When I was involved in hiring people I cared less about the resume (other than the minimum requirements) and more about if I could tolerate working with this person and if they could learn “our way” of doing things.
Click to expand...

This made me chuckle. Yeah, that should be a given but...
 
If someone who has known you for a long time said that, you might ask them to elaborate.....
Companies are social organizations that reject individuals lacking in social skills.
 
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