Paying your dues.

Paying your dues is the dumbest saying in aviation. I have hated hearing it from morons who had crap careers and expect everyone else to have one too. Not my fault somebody was stuck a garbage regional for 13 years, why should everyone have to bear the same trauma?

Don't listen to anyone that tells you that you have to pay your dues.
 
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The part that caught my attention was "I was told I had a bad attitude". That can be taken a few different ways, and may or may not be pertinent.
It sounded like a friend told him that, and not the potential employer.
 
Merriam Webster Dictionary

Paying your Dues - phrase



Definition of “Paying your Dues”



1 : I made it to where I am, you’re not here, and I don’t think you have what it takes to be here, or how dare you be here with only [whatever qualifications]. Go fly more and try again next year.

Example //
[Delta job fair pilot representative]: Thanks for stoping by, work hard and pay your dues. Keep doing what you’re doing!
 
If 121 is the goal some 121 time will probably help but I don’t have any recruiting experience so take that with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I wouldn’t tell you to pay dues but rather just build more time.
 
Paying your dues is the dumbest saying in aviation. I have hated hearing it from morons who had crap careers and expect everyone else to have one too. Not my fault somebody was stuck a garbage regional for 13 years, why should everyone have to bear the same trauma?

Don't listen to anyone that tells you that you have to pay your dues.
It's about as dumb when someone says "you'll be senior one day"
 
People who say "pay your dues" are usually folks who had friends or parents in high places.

Anyone who actually paid their dues and wasn't a crap person would actually help others so they didn't have to go through the misery they went through.

This. There are a lot of "gatekeepers" in this industry. "You're not a pilot until you've flown a metro through a thunderstorm inverted blah blah blah." Stuff like this is usually driven by insecurity.

That said, there's a difference between paying your dues because "well, I had to suffer" and gaining valuable experience. There is certainly some dues paying that can make you better suited for moving up the food chain, but that's a different thing entirely.
 
This. There are a lot of "gatekeepers" in this industry. "You're not a pilot until you've flown a metro through a thunderstorm inverted blah blah blah." Stuff like this is usually driven by insecurity.

That said, there's a difference between paying your dues because "well, I had to suffer" and gaining valuable experience. There is certainly some dues paying that can make you better suited for moving up the food chain, but that's a different thing entirely.

this “paying your dues” to meet the expectations of others is stupid.

doing difficult work because you want to become experienced doing those sorts of things - that’s just good for you.

I was very insecure early on. Then, after I got older, and honestly after I got married I really didn’t care anymore what people thought of my experience.
 
this “paying your dues” to meet the expectations of others is stupid.

doing difficult work because you want to become experienced doing those sorts of things - that’s just good for you.

I was very insecure early on. That after I got older and honestly after I got married I really didn’t care anymore what people thought of my experience.

We have a lot of former bush pilots where I work. Lots of stories about heroics and what not and a little bit of pushback when I point out that if you need to do any of that stuff while working where we work, it's because you screwed up your decision making somewhere.
 
We have a lot of former bush pilots where I work. Lots of stories about heroics and what not and a little bit of pushback when I point out that if you need to do any of that stuff while working where we work, it's because you screwed up your decision making somewhere.
It’s a different world - if you do the work because you think it makes you a badass… well, you’re probably not one. I think that goes for most jobs. Nobody wants to hear the story “there I was, just me, 1/4SM feeezing fog, and a plane load of terrified villagers.” Nobody cares and those guys are usually tools. Discretion is the better part of valor.

But it is challenging work, and you’ll never be bored. I loved it - still miss it immensely. Lots of freedom, minimal adult supervision, and generally I was home every night.

But now that I don’t do it anymore I will say this, you will selectively break all sorts of rules to get the job done - sometimes it makes sense, other times it doesn’t. Bending the rules so you survive is different than breaking the rules so your boss makes more money.

After I got married/had kids/grew up a little bit (not much, but a little bit) I really didn’t have to prove anything anymore. Consequently, my flying got safer and I scared myself a lot less. I started participating in trying to make it safer too, but consequently, the set of jobs I was willing to work dramatically shrank. That and the BS I was willing to tolerate from my employer plummeted.

It’s fantastic flying and a great way to make a living but anyone who thinks it’s glamorous or that it makes them a badass is delusional.
 
It’s a different world - if you do the work because you think it makes you a badass… well, you’re probably not one. I think that goes for most jobs. Nobody wants to hear the story “there I was, just me, 1/4SM feeezing fog, and a plane load of terrified villagers.” Nobody cares and those guys are usually tools. Discretion is the better part of valor.

But it is challenging work, and you’ll never be bored. I loved it - still miss it immensely. Lots of freedom, minimal adult supervision, and generally I was home every night.

But now that I don’t do it anymore I will say this, you will selectively break all sorts of rules to get the job done - sometimes it makes sense, other times it doesn’t. Bending the rules so you survive is different than breaking the rules so your boss makes more money.

After I got married/had kids/grew up a little bit (not much, but a little bit) I really didn’t have to prove anything anymore. Consequently, my flying got safer and I scared myself a lot less. I started participating in trying to make it safer too, but consequently, the set of jobs I was willing to work dramatically shrank. That and the BS I was willing to tolerate from my employer plummeted.

It’s fantastic flying and a great way to make a living but anyone who thinks it’s glamorous or that it makes them a badass is delusional.

Yeah, that was my point. It's an entirely different job and that kind of stuff has no place in 121 operation. I can see how that stuff could be fun at a younger age, but I like boring now.

We do have a lot of freedom and minimal adult supervision. You just kind of show up to paperwork sitting on the center console, go fly, and you very rarely hear from anybody.
 
Yeah, that was my point. It's an entirely different job and that kind of stuff has no place in 121 operation

Totally agreed. There’s a reason 121 is safe

Still the freedom and ability to be the master of your own destiny was pretty awesome.

Being your own FA, dispatcher, cultural interpreter, weather service, performance engineer combined with short legs and lots of approaches was fun. It was something I never really grew out of.

To be honest I would absolutely love to go through the training at Air Beach Ball, and fly the line several hundred hours… but I think I’d have been miserable during an 15hr leg. Christ, going to Adak was cool, but it was 5hrs there and 5hrs back. I was pretty bored most of the trip, I can’t imagine doing that for 3x as long.

Though the money would have been nice.
 
Totally agreed. There’s a reason 121 is safe

Still the freedom and ability to be the master of your own destiny was pretty awesome.

Being your own FA, dispatcher, cultural interpreter, weather service, performance engineer combined with short legs and lots of approaches was fun. It was something I never really grew out of.

To be honest I would absolutely love to go through the training at Air Beach Ball, and fly the line several hundred hours… but I think I’d have been miserable during an 15hr leg. Christ, going to Adak was cool, but it was 5hrs there and 5hrs back. I was pretty bored most of the trip, I can’t imagine doing that for 3x as long.

Though the money would have been nice.

Most of my days are shorter than my pre 117 days at my regional, plus I get to nap for 1/3-1/2.
 
Paying your dues is the dumbest saying in aviation. I have hated hearing it from morons who had crap careers and expect everyone else to have one too. Not my fault somebody was stuck a garbage regional for 13 years, why should everyone have to bear the same trauma?

Don't listen to anyone that tells you that you have to pay your dues.
Eh, I find this a very narrow minded post for few reasons. Not because you’re not right but because their is way too much interpretation involved. 1st, paying your dues isn’t an aviation thing. Ask any doctor about paying dues. 2nd, someone’s else’s experience or timing has no bearing on yours and people either hit or miss for reasons they caused or luck. 3rd and most importantly, EVERYONE pays their dues…. Everyone. Now what that means is up to each person. I’ve never met a captain at a major who got hired off the street that day. All I mean is that dues paid is an ever moving target that we all must pay but it’s true you should never let an individual tell you exactly what those dues are because they sure as hell don’t know.
 
People who say "pay your dues" are usually folks who had friends or parents in high places.

Anyone who actually paid their dues and wasn't a crap person would actually help others so they didn't have to go through the misery they went through.

You mean like getting paid $5 a load of skydivers from angry man for the "privilege" of flying his plane with a "line out the door" for people who would "pay me" to fly the plane.
 
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