NTSB report is out for the Falcon at MYF and it is a doozy

[Roger Roger]

Well to his defense....he had no certificate to have the type added onto. It had already been revoked at that point. My theory is that he knew the FAA would have noticed that a pilot it a revoked certificate had just gotten a new type and he was trying to avoid getting caught.

I was guessing that he knew the sim center would notice (or the sim center found out when they ran his information) and he either skedaddled or was firmly but politely asked to leave

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Well to his defense....he had no certificate to have the type added onto. It had already been revoked at that point. My theory is that he knew the FAA would have noticed that a pilot it a revoked certificate had just gotten a new type and he was trying to avoid getting caught.

One would imagine that in this era of IACRA the examiner would have gone "sooooooooo" when it came time to do the paperwork. Assuming it was an initial-in-pursuit of a rating.

A pilot has to accurately disclose his work history for airlines. The airline would send PRIA requests to those airlines they see in the application. So if you fail to disclose you worked at Mesa and failed upgrade there twice, Atlas wouldn’t know about it.

And this is why we have PRD, because there are probably more Conrads out there than have spectacularly and brutally ended their careers.

 

[KLB]

I was guessing that he knew the sim center would notice (or the sim center found out when they ran his information) and he either skedaddled or was firmly but politely asked to leave

He would know. He used to work at a flight training center in his past.

 

[knot4u]

Well to his defense....he had no certificate to have the type added onto. It had already been revoked at that point. My theory is that he knew the FAA would have noticed that a pilot it a revoked certificate had just gotten a new type and he was trying to avoid getting caught.

I recall having to provide identification and certs prior to showing up for MX initial training and showing it again once onsite. I suspect it was all a show to try to gain the confidence of their customer. I've never heard of anyone failing a MX school, although I do know of one person that Flight Safety wouldn't sign off for a LR JET type even after multiple sim rides.

 

[CFI A&P]

One would imagine that in this era of IACRA the examiner would have gone "sooooooooo" when it came time to do the paperwork. Assuming it was an initial-in-pursuit of a rating.

Or, it is possible they never went to a 142 training center.

 

[KLB]

One would imagine that in this era of IACRA the examiner would have gone "sooooooooo" when it came time to do the paperwork. Assuming it was an initial-in-pursuit of a rating.

He would known this. My question is why did he even bother going to training in the first place?

 

[KLB]

I recall having to provide identification and certs prior to showing up for MX initial training and showing it again once onsite. I suspect it was all a show to try to gain the confidence of their customer. I've never heard of anyone failing a MX school, although I do know of one person that Flight Safety wouldn't sign off for a LR JET type even after multiple sim rides.

I believe that it's required. I have to show my pilot certificate, medical, and passport at every recurrent event at the big box centers.

 

[knot4u]

A pilot has to accurately disclose his work history for airlines. The airline would send PRIA requests to those airlines they see in the application. So if you fail to disclose you worked at Mesa and failed upgrade there twice, Atlas wouldn’t know about it.

That's not how it works. Your resume has nothing to do with your PRIA record. When you get hired they'll ask you to sign a form allowing them to access your PRIA record, that record will reflect your previous employment (regardless of omissions on your resume), drug test history and any action taken by the administrator against your certifications, it's employer populated and they have to comply. You're not old enough to remember a time when it didn't exist and I guarantee you probably signed the page allowing it a couple of times when prompted as you were being hired because you likely have nothing to hide. You signed something and you have no idea what it was. Want to buy a bridge? I'll also say some employers have been accused of abusing the system to get revenge on someone who left for greener pastures. It's far from perfect but farfegnugen or get off the pot.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I believe that it's required. I have to show my pilot certificate, medical, and passport at every recurrent event at the big box centers.

Yeah. Maybe I just hand 'em over by reflex at the start of events at this point but

 

[KLB]

Yeah. Maybe I just hand 'em over by reflex at the start of events at this point but

Yeah usually an office assistant comes to collect your documents at the beginning of every recurrent event. They now also take your picture upon entry into facility on day one of your training event.

 

[knot4u]

I believe that it's required. I have to show my pilot certificate, medical, and passport at every recurrent event at the big box centers.

My point was I'm not entirely sure it's not theater, with the info provided it would be very easy to verify someones identity and qualifications almost instantly. Maybe they're like the bartender in some dive bar and the customer has a valid ID but looks underage. Party is on!

 

[Beep]

Maybe he sat in on the ground school as a non flying “ flight department manager “ audit or something?

 

[KLB]

My point was I'm not entirely sure it's not theater, with the info provided it would be very easy to verify someones identity and qualifications almost instantly. Maybe they're like the bartender in some dive bar and the customer has a valid ID but looks underage. Party is on!

I am still curious of if the training center asked him to leave honestly.

Here's some back story...he got caught falsifying documents because a training center noticed that the billable ours reserved by the management company for was way more the time that was shown in the sim. So they contacted the company to let them know that the "math wasn't mathing". They management company (to protect themselves) then self disclosed to the FAA and and investigation began. There is lot more to this story and it's even more buzarre than what the FAA has disclosed in it's final report.

 

[knot4u]

I am still curious of if the training center asked him to leave honestly.

Here's some back story...he got caught falsifying documents because a training center noticed that the billable ours reserved by the management company for was way more the time that was shown in the sim. So they contacted the company to let them know that the "math wasn't mathing". They management company (to protect themselves) then self disclosed to the FAA and and investigation began. There is lot more to this story and it's even more buzarre than what the FAA has disclosed in it's final report.

Of course they didn't. MX initial costs $30K and we only get an hour or two of sim time (normally for engine runs and taxi). Everyday when we show up there's a virtual buffet of doughnuts, bagels, fruit, juices and good coffee. It's like walking into the lobby of a nice hotel in the morning, if they could they'd probably offer bloody mary's. My point was if someone actually spends the money to send someone the school isn't likely the to kick them out or fail them unless they absolutely have to, they're in the business of making money and kicking people out for any reason isn't good business. I know of only one person who failed going to FlightSafety, and my experience spans almost 30 years.

 

[knot4u]

There's also the oddballs that self finance (family money) into school (maybe a G-IV initial) and then find themselves in a pool full of sharks that hate them for not having earned it. Pilots are weird.

 

[KLB]

There's also the oddballs that self finance (family money) into school (maybe a G-IV initial) and then find themselves in a pool full of sharks that hate them for not having earned it. Pilots are weird.

There's really no earning it in Corprate Aviation for the most part. It's about who you buddies are and who can hook you up. You can be a 10,000hr pilot, been flying for 20 years, and skipped over for a "buddy" who's kid just got a fresh ATP. It's just the way it is.

 

[knot4u]

There's really no earning it in Corprate Aviation for the most part. It's about who you buddies are and who can hook you up. You can be a 10,000hr pilot, been flying for 20 years, and skipped over for a "buddy" who's kid just got a fresh ATP. It's just the way it is.

In my experience that's not entirely true. I've seen people work from the ground up and toil for years to get to a jet and I've seen people that seem to have everything handed to them, believe it or not some people are just built for the job and others aren't regardless of how hard they try. In my experience those that can will and those that can't fail. But you fly corporate in S FL so your reality is not the same as mine.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

That's not how it works. Your resume has nothing to do with your PRIA record. When you get hired they'll ask you to sign a form allowing them to access your PRIA record, that record will reflect your previous employment (regardless of omissions on your resume), drug test history and any action taken by the administrator against your certifications, it's employer populated and they have to comply. You're not old enough to remember a time when it didn't exist and I guarantee you probably signed the page allowing it a couple of times when prompted as you were being hired because you likely have nothing to hide. You signed something and you have no idea what it was. Want to buy a bridge? I'll also say some employers have been accused of abusing the system to get revenge on someone who left for greener pastures. It's far from perfect but farfegnugen or get off the pot.

What you are describing is how PRD works, and it still isn't fully implemented. PRIA is 100% based on what YOU provide to the company and it is exactly how the Atlas guy slipped through the cracks. I would know, I have had about 10 jobs in the last 10 years and have been through the process many times. At my latest (hopefully last) job, they started using PRD, but it isn't fully functional.

 

[SteveC]

A pilot has to accurately disclose his work history for airlines. The airline would send PRIA requests to those airlines they see in the application. So if you fail to disclose you worked at Mesa and failed upgrade there twice, Atlas wouldn’t know about it.

Part 135 has also transitioned from PRIA to PRD. One of the last things I did before retirement is set up a process for entering those thousands and thousands of old pilot records into the new system. PIA to initialize, but should be much better than PRIA was.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Part 135 has also transitioned from PRIA to PRD. One of the last things I did before retirement is set up a process for entering those thousands and thousands of old pilot records into the new system. PIA to initialize, but should be much better than PRIA was.

You’re retired. Are you SURE there isn’t an opening in your boomer club for an honorary member?

That's not how it works. Your resume has nothing to do with your PRIA record. When you get hired they'll ask you to sign a form allowing them to access your PRIA record, that record will reflect your previous employment (regardless of omissions on your resume), drug test history and any action taken by the administrator against your certifications, it's employer populated and they have to comply. You're not old enough to remember a time when it didn't exist and I guarantee you probably signed the page allowing it a couple of times when prompted as you were being hired because you likely have nothing to hide. You signed something and you have no idea what it was. Want to buy a bridge? I'll also say some employers have been accused of abusing the system to get revenge on someone who left for greener pastures. It's far from perfect but farfegnugen or get off the pot.

My understanding was if I don’t disclose to you that I worked at Mesa, you as a manager wouldn’t know to send a PRIA request to Mesa. Correct?