Non-Union airlines..

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Ok- it was a fair question and you responded with dignity and class. I respect that.

No one hopes the Pinnacle guys get what they deserve more than I do...I don't know exactly what PCL's MEC is looking for but I sure hope it's at least ASA + 3%.

I too hope CJC votes in ALPA and I'll be a huge proponent of it- but Pinnacle is going to hold on to us. If we can be successful with the Q- codeshare agreements will just continue to pour in. My guess is that- the company will run the Q400 for Continental, United will pick it up out of Denver we will become profitable, ALPA gets voted in we negotiate better pay rates on the Q (not Horizon, but respectable) and Seggy will chair our MEC.
 
what's next??? sterilization of all non union pilots?
Will P Diddy join the next union drive with his VOTE OR DIE movement???
 
Airdale said:
Word. I may have run into you a few times around Boston. You were based in AUG right? Preston was my sim partner.
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yes, u were dave. little shorter than me, shades, black hair. spikey in the beginning if i remember correctly.

i used to fly the hell outa maine with kevin lackie which is who u spend ur first 40 or so hours with out of IOE right?
 
SmitteyB said:
Ok- it was a fair question and you responded with dignity and class. I respect that.

No one hopes the Pinnacle guys get what they deserve more than I do...I don't know exactly what PCL's MEC is looking for but I sure hope it's at least ASA + 3%.

I too hope CJC votes in ALPA and I'll be a huge proponent of it- but Pinnacle is going to hold on to us. If we can be successful with the Q- codeshare agreements will just continue to pour in. My guess is that- the company will run the Q400 for Continental, United will pick it up out of Denver we will become profitable, ALPA gets voted in we negotiate better pay rates on the Q (not Horizon, but respectable) and Seggy will chair our MEC.
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i don't know if anyone has worked harder than seggy and i hope it goes to him. i'd rather he came to mesaba and became our MEC. but i doubt he's up for draft picks. personally since i work for another company i'd like to have a buncha the guys at colgan over here. i've tried my best for snuggles to get over here with no luck (not that i blame him, i completely understand his reasons).

with any luck you guys will become the largest dash8 -400 operator out there as long as you can keep finding pilots to fill the seats.


pay doesn't have to be the foremost issue, if you can get some overtime overrides in there for open time and junior man you won't have to demand HUGE hourly pay. just my 0.02
 
meritflyer said:
SUCK!

(my late night drinking thoughts and love for all the non-union guys!)
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airdale said:
O.K. So you've been an FO for what, a few months now at XJT, and now you're the know-it-all-guy when it comes to this industry and Unions? Please man, you need to look in the mirror and count your stripes. You work for one of the better carriers with a good Union group and excellent work rules. Good on you. But since when did you become such an expert in this field? After you passed your SIC ride? Come on, get real.
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Airdale- I couldn't agree with you more! It's about time someone put this punk in his place! Merit- it's sad when your non-union carrier rhetoric and JC posts carries over to cockpit and LGA crew room talk. You certainly do talk a big game for a very junior FO. I don't claim to know everything and without JC I believe I would be lost, but I certainly don't go around running my mouth by saying union pilots are "pukes" and union companies "SUCK". Because I just don't have the experience to make such accusations and neither my friend, do you.

It's sad that a lot of people here will jump on the union bandwagon just to be socially accepted at JetCareers.
 
FedEx? I guess a little history lesson is indicated.

FedEx in their non-Union days LOVED to hire ex-military guys. Why? Because they were generally politically conservative and anti-Union.

So why am I not surprised Fins has dredged up some of the slugs who are unhappy that their purple "non-Union" paradise unionized.
 
bike21 said:
True that, however you can be dedicated and effective sans violence. Surely you don't actually condone violence for this. How about vote Republican or receive a beating? :)
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Why would I vote republican? I don't hate people and actually listened to Jesus' message!

:)

(You're right BTW, I just have nothing to do these days. Brighton got 21 inches the other night and I've been sitting on reserve in Newark while not getting used)
 
jtrain609 said:
Why would I vote republican? I don't hate people and actually listened to Jesus' message!

:)

(You're right BTW, I just have nothing to do these days. Brighton got 21 inches the other night and I've been sitting on reserve in Newark while not getting used)
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Duuuude! Use some sick days! POWDER!!!!!

Not to rub it in, but we had two knee-deep days last week :) I think once I get myself out of flight school-o-rama debt I am moving to a ski town where everyone closes up shop on powder days and plays :D
 
Come out to Park City, you can even keep your day job. My desperate hope is that we open a Salt Lake base one of these days (as is the eve present rumor) so I can bid long call reserve and spend my days skiing. And once I marry Emily, I get a free season pass to Deer Valley.

How freakin' awesome is that.
 
jtrain609 said:
Come out to Park City, you can even keep your day job. My desperate hope is that we open a Salt Lake base one of these days (as is the eve present rumor) so I can bid long call reserve and spend my days skiing. And once I marry Emily, I get a free season pass to Deer Valley.

How freakin' awesome is that.
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That would rock for you guys! Apparently our current negotiations include long call reserve, so that could come in handy :)

My wife has talked about career options in Ogden since a lot of the outdoor industry is moving over that way. Moving a little further west isn't out of the question entirely.
 
Remind her that Atomic and somebody else both have moved out to Park City now and the job market/economy in Utah hasn't slowed to a halt yet (like it has back home in Michigan). Move to Ogden Ogden and hang at Snowbasin!
 
Velocipede said:
Once again, Fins PROVES he doesn't know squat about ALPA, nor does he want to. Because he bases all his "opinions" on the chirping of disaffected ex-ALPA pilots who blame the Union for their furloughs.

Not really a balanced view that come from that source. But, Fins wants to go it alone because he's all about himself. Its sad. But its a classic example of the "me, Me, ME" attitude you'll generally find at jetBlue/Skybus/Virgin/Allegiant. "Me first, everyone else can pound sand."

Hopefully the new JFK slot restrictions will drive a stake through the heart of jetBlue and Fins can yank gear on some non-Union RJ for awhile.
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And how many pilots do you know at jetBlue/Skybus/Virgin/Allegiant? Or are those just the poster children that you like to pick on? Hell you didn't even include Allegiant until I kept prodding you as to why they weren't on your list. You want me to find you another poster child?
You may not like the payscales and lack of union membership at these companys but don't make up BS as to the specific attitudes of each of these pilots.
Also until the hardliners beat up on Skywest I give your opinions no weight. I think Jtrain is the only pro-union guy that makes a stand on Skywest.
For the most part I agree that unions are a necessary evil. I don't however hold the opinion of this lets grab a pitch fork and go after these non-union guys. You never know how many people you turn off to unions by this kind of attitude.
It seems like people around JC become union cheerleaders because it's the cool thing to do. If you think non-union guys have a me me me attitude why did you join a union? For the brotherhood or for the work rules? For your fellow workers or yourself? Deep down why do you work for the airline you do?
 
BTW I also want to make it clear I don't have a problem with Skywest pilots, but how they're treated! I feel bad for those guys to tell you the truth as I have a bunch of friends that are working there and I think they get bent over, as much as they think they've got a good deal. My issue is with management over there and what the pilots are forced to work for.

(It's not that you were misleading, Mike, I've just been jumped on when I attack Skywest management and the pilots take it personally)
 
jtrain609 said:
BTW I also want to make it clear I don't have a problem with Skywest pilots, but how they're treated! I feel bad for those guys to tell you the truth as I have a bunch of friends that are working there and I think they get bent over, as much as they think they've got a good deal. My issue is with management over there and what the pilots are forced to work for.

(It's not that you were misleading, Mike, I've just been jumped on when I attack Skywest management and the pilots take it personally)
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And that's the attitude I wish you guys would have toward the poster children. But no they are different for whatever reason. I have alot of buddies at jetBlue and even some at Skybus. I personally would never goto Skybus. Mostly because I don't think they will last. But do I have a hatred for their pilots. Hell no. I can kind of see the point of these airlines affecting your pay. But what good is a union if you can't stand up for yourself at the negotiating table? These guys didn't cross picket lines. They went to work for startup airlines. They wanted to be apart of something and some are even trying to make a union drive. Guys that started at UPS, FedEx, and Southwest were the same way. Do you spit in the face of the top of the food chain at the above airlines. They were yesterdays "protoscabs" but today most would be pretty happy in their position.
 
jtrain609 said:
BTW I also want to make it clear I don't have a problem with Skywest pilots, but how they're treated! I feel bad for those guys to tell you the truth as I have a bunch of friends that are working there and I think they get bent over, as much as they think they've got a good deal. My issue is with management over there and what the pilots are forced to work for.

(It's not that you were misleading, Mike, I've just been jumped on when I attack Skywest management and the pilots take it personally)
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Perhaps you're talking about mainline SkyWest (the jet) as I don't pay any attention to it for the most part, but my own horrible situation here on the Brasilia in my third year at the company is as follows. Upwards of 70k this year, usually 12-14 days off a month, holidays that I bid for I get (a week off over Thanksgiving for example), I bid for overnights get mostly what I want.

They don't bother us about being late, or taking more fuel. I've taken double the release fuel and heard nothing. I've been late for no other reason than checking paperwork, heard nothing. I've refused airplanes because of a deferred pack, never heard a thing. I've taken delays for getting a nav radio head replaced because the display was hard to read at night, not a word.

You say I'm getting boned, sorry I don't see it.
 
jtrain609 said:
BTW I also want to make it clear I don't have a problem with Skywest pilots, but how they're treated! I feel bad for those guys to tell you the truth as I have a bunch of friends that are working there and I think they get bent over, as much as they think they've got a good deal. My issue is with management over there and what the pilots are forced to work for.

(It's not that you were misleading, Mike, I've just been jumped on when I attack Skywest management and the pilots take it personally)
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It's not that I take it personally, it's just some of the stuff that I read about the company I work for is completely false. Seriously though, what are we "forced" to work for? Did the company force me to turn my 7 days of vacation into 19 days off with PBS? Did the company force me to accept the extra 6 hours of pay on top of a 22 hour 4 day because we scrubbed an entire day due to weather? Did they force me to drop that 3 day trip with our schedule enhancement program because I didn't feel like working?

Do I wish we had a union? Yup. Do I wish first year pay was more than $19/hr? Yup. Do I wish we could get a real rate on the -700/900? Yup. Things aren't exactly peachy over here, but it's pretty darn good.

BTW first year pay is supposedly going up to ~$24/hr after the new year. It's a rumot though.
 
GaTechKid said:
It's not that I take it personally, it's just some of the stuff that I read about the company I work for is completely false. Seriously though, what are we "forced" to work for? Did the company force me to turn my 7 days of vacation into 19 days off with PBS? Did the company force me to accept the extra 6 hours of pay on top of a 22 hour 4 day because we scrubbed an entire day due to weather? Did they force me to drop that 3 day trip with our schedule enhancement program because I didn't feel like working?

Do I wish we had a union? Yup. Do I wish first year pay was more than $19/hr? Yup. Do I wish we could get a real rate on the -700/900? Yup. Things aren't exactly peachy over here, but it's pretty darn good.

BTW first year pay is supposedly going up to ~$24/hr after the new year. It's a rumot though.
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Hope you guys get the raise and a real 700/900 rate! You deserve it.
 
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