My ATP 10 Hour Program Experience


New Member
Ok, I know that people have posted in the past about thier multi add-on experience at ATP, but I wanted to add my 2 cents to the forum since some of you have taken the time to answer questions from my past posts. Also, I would like to thank all those who did respond to my posts for thier opinions.

Day 1) I arrived at ATP (Riverside) at 8:00 AM and met my instructor Tom. The first thing we did was to take care of all the neccessary paper work. Next, we went over the information in the Seminole supplement, I had read the material several times, so aside from a few details, I had a fairly good grip on what I need to know as far as the oral portion was concerned. Next, we flew to the local practice area and went over a few manuvers and I got my first taste of flying with two engines. After we returned, Tom gave me a post flight briefing and showed me what I needed to get down in order to be successful in my training.
Day 2) We started at 8:00AM, I flew better than the day before, but because of a missunderstanding on my part (Duh), I did not have the procedures memorized and this put the pressure on, I won't go into details, lets just say I was already beginning to have my doubts.
Day 3) We spent first part of day working on manuevers as I needed the extra practice. I had finaly memorized the manuvers and could recite them on the ground for the most part, when in the aircraft however, It was a little different,but I could tell that I would be ok for the check ride the next day. Tom pointed out that I just need to slow myself down and this made all the difference. The second flight of the day was to test my instrument skills. At this point I have to say that although I was current, I was not proficent and it showed. At this point I got very frustrated with myself and after we landed I was seriously considering forgoing the checkride. Tom and I discussed my options and after the pep talk, Tom agreed to meet me at 6:30 AM for my last flight in an attempt to get me up to speed (thanks Tom).
Day 4) We meet at 6:30 am and do one last flight shooting aproaches. This helped alot and I was able to feel good about doing the checkride at 8:30. After we landed we head back to finish my paperwork, Tom signs me off and its over to the checkride I go. After the oral portion (which was no problem at all) we fly, engine failure on takeoff roll, no problem. Short feild take off and landing, no problem. Engine failure after takeoff,single engine landing, no problem. The Seminole is very easy to land, most of my hours are in Cessnas but I was able to grease the seminole on with ease almost right from the start! We went to the practice area next and the onlt manuever I was not really happy with was my steep turns, they were in pts standards, but I'm a perfectionist and well lets just say, they weren't perfect. everything else went fine. Of course I made a few mistakes, but for only having 8.3 hours in the aircraft, what do you expect. It was now time to do the approach. We shot the ILS 26R into Chino and with the grace of God, along with serious concentration, I was able to nail the approach all the way down to a beautifull touch and go landing. After the takeoff, my examiner took over and brought us back to RAL. I landed, taxied back, parked and it was all over. I'm now Comm/SEL/MEL/Instrument rated, thanks to ATP's program.
I want to thank everyone at ATP for getting me through this program. Tom and the rest of the guys at Riverside are doing a great job and I really appreciate thier help. If you are thinking of going to ATP, do it, you won't be sorry. Just make sure you read the supplement and memorize the procedures as this will be the only way to get through it. Bottom line, ATP delivers what they advertise as long as you do your homework.
What?! No partial panel single-engine NDB approach?? Brotha DE let you off easy!

Just kiddin, great job--thanks for the report!
I did my private ME at SAC in Apr. 2001. I felt very comfortable flying the seminole after the 8 hrs of training. I thought their little handbook did a good job of extracting the important information from the POH. On the checkride they had to use a guy that they never used before, just so happens it was the same guy that had done my private SE. He asked me a couple questions that were not in that handbook (i.e. which fuel tank do the primers take fuel from?) I had no idea, it wasn't in the handbook, i wasn't given a POH. The examiner was not impressed with ATP at all. He asked if I was supplied with a POH, and I showed him the thing they gave me. I passed the checkride,. A couple years later the same examiner did my instrument, commercial SE and ME, CFI, and CFII rides. There was a clear difference in the quality of training that the FBO provided compared to ATP.
It wasnt' just my instructor either, the examiner asked all the instructors if they provided their students with POH's. None did. ATP is good if you want the rating in a short period of time, but if you want the skills to go with it, you should go somewhere else. it legal to operate an aircraft without a POH onboard? Not to say that you own one, but don't you need one in the plane? What's ARROW stand for again? something, something, something OPERATING LIMITATIONS, and something?
All of the aircraft will have the specific AFM aboard, but he is correct that we don't provide a Piper POH. Although our Seminole supplement is excellent, some students obtain a POH anyway, particularly for MEI ratings. There are some examiners out there that just don't like us, and I was unfortunate enough to meet one myself. There was nothing I could have done to make this guy happy, so I just did the best I could and thankfully passed.
It seems the bad comments (I mean the one or two) have a bitter tone, that is from the instructor/examiner pov...
-whoops- Thought you were somebody else, John. My bad.

Kinda snide to imply that we were operating a plane illegally; if that is the intent. We run 'em for 4,000 hours a month, AND pay the bills, AND own the planes, AND turn out a quality product, period.

It is inevitable that someone won't be happy with our programs, what with the number of folks that pay for our services and actually get trained.


Sure is a lotta dials and stuff.
It's not the intent at all, Sig, it's a very serious question; can you operate an airplane without the POH? I've always been under the impression that you're not allowed to, for the aforementioned reasons. I'm not questioning the quality of ATP's training, I'm questioning whether it's legal or not if by technicality.
yes, a POH must be onboard.
On another note, I recently signed up for my multi commercial through ATP and one of the things they sent me in my starter package was a Piper Seminole POH.
That's what I thought. So the POH must be in the plane somewhere, otherwise ATP is operating those planes ilegally. I'm not trying to pick on ATP and say they are a horrible company, because I actually plan on doing some of my training with them. But either something has fallen through the cracks here and there are not POH's on board stuffed in seat backs or something, or someone has some wrong information.

braidkid - how is that CFI gig going for ya? Rackin' up the hours?


John Herreshoff
"So the POH must be in the plane somewhere, otherwise ATP is operating those planes ilegally"

Nobody said there wern't POH in the planes- Just that ATP doesn't supply them to students for training. ]

Edit: Of course I don't know for sure, just guessing
ATP doesn't supply them (POH) to students for training.

[/ QUOTE ]

This incorrect. Like I said in my earlier post. I was supplied a Seminole POH in my multi comm starter kit. Perhaps they used to not supply them but now they do.

Anyhow...John, the CFI gig is going well. I'm a part time CFI and averaging about 40 hours/month. It has been a total blast. I'm lucky in that I am able to accumulate hours while keeping my good paying engineering job and saving money for the financially rough days ahead.

I'm attending the Manassas ATP location this December/January and will be doing the multi commercial/CFII/MEI as well as the 35 hour time building program!! I'm counting down the days and can't wait!!
Sweet dude, glad to hear that you're doing well. It's nice to see that there are some people that are making a little bit of headway in this economy
Of course the POH was on the plane. I also remember being occupied with other things while I was in the airplane. I got what I wanted, a ME rating for $1600. I felt rushed during the training, but i suppose in order to get a PVT ME in 8 hrs of instruction, you have to be rushed. I don't think it helped that my instructor wanted to do cross country flights on the second and third lessons. That time could have been used for more important things (Vmc demo, more engine failures, etc.) I don't mean to bad-mouth ATP, but I think they should have proved me with a POH, It's not like i can take the one from the airplane home. It's a 4 day course and If I show up on the first day and they don't give me a POH, and they don't sell them, I'm pretty much out of luck.
so let me get the facts straight..........they didn't give you, viper, a POH..but there was a POH in the airplane right?

and now they are seeding everyone a POH once you make your deposite right?
To clarify:

The "POH" you buy at the pilot shop is a generic, nonspecific operating manual for that make and model of aircraft. More appropriately called an "Information Manual", and indeed that is what Piper calls it. We do not supply one of these publications to all students, only those in long programs such as Career Pilot, CFI, etc. However, everyone gets a Seminole Training supplement, which is a document produced by ATP to cover the essentials for a checkride. It is suprisingly thorough, and contains extras such as aerodynamics information and ATP checklists. All students have access to a full information manual while at our training centers.

The actual "POH" or Aircraft Flight Manual, is a aircraft-specific document that is kept in the aircraft at all times. In our case, it is contained in a brown three-ring binder. This document is seldom used except to get specific W&B information. For everything else such as performance calculations, we use the Information Manual.