Lawsuit over scab lists

flyboywbl said:
Especially when you get ramped by the FAA. They can do some shiesty things to get you to incriminate your self.
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True True True.

I know of a captain, who did nothing wrong but talked himself into a violation, but luckily saw the light with some "intervention".
 
MikeD said:
Completely honest question here. Would Freedom A people be scabs? If not by the technical definition then, shouldn't they be on a separate list rather than a master scab list, if only to make an accurate listing? Or is it already somehow divided or otherwise noted that way?
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They're on a seperate list. Some people carry both.
 
ppragman said:
Nobody else sees this whole concept as pretty unprofessional? Am I the only one?
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Aww dangit, you got me to jump in.

I think a union is primarily an organization that maintains professional standards; safe operations, competent pilots, and good pay and working conditions.

So, what means are available to a union to influence how things are done? (taking responsibility for some things and negotiating over others) What remains available when all the stakeholders are not in agreement? (removing their participation -- a strike, I guess). A strike doesn't have much effectiveness if the services of the pilot group continue to be available. If that's the case, it is de facto acceptance of the current arrangement.

The list seems like an effective way to ensure a uniform response from the pilot group (short of the mandate of the union being obviously correct and righteous :) )
 
Gonzo said:
Wouldn't be nice to know who has your back and and who has management's back.
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Gonzo said:
So is it ok to cross the line. Should the pilots pay any price for crossing the line?
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It's not ok to cross picket lines. Nope. That being said, creating a list of offenders and carrying out your own form of vigilante justice isn't exactly right either. To me, it just smacks of childishness. It seems like you're taking the meager power you get with a jumpseat to control and let it go do your head. Because really, the jumpseat is the only authority you wield over these guys, you can't really keep them from getting hired (you can try, but I doubt you'll be successful) and for what purpose, so one more pilot has to take a substandard job to pay the mortgage? You're not going to be scablist-ID'ing at the local supermarket to slash their tires. You're not doing anything more than inconveniencing them. If you really wanted to punish a jumpseater, let him on then from 10,000 to 10,000 lecture him continuously about how much of a bastard he is for scabbing if you have the juevos (which I doubt most of the posters do). If you want to punish those guys, lobby congress in order to create legislation that sentences scabs (I mean real scabs, not any of the others) to some sort of punishment for crossing a picket line. Do something productive, but don't be a child in how you handle adult problems. Children look for retribution, adults look for solutions.

And even then, if all of the scabs on the list have been punished, and all of the GoJetters/Freedom A listers have been denied jobs for eternity, what will you have accomplished? You haven't made the profession better by punishing those who are going to act selfishly, you've made the profession worse. You've pushed pilots out of work, and reduced the quality of life for people. The exact things the union is trying to prevent among the non-pariahs in the community.
 
ppragman said:
It's not ok to cross picket lines. Nope. That being said, creating a list of offenders and carrying out your own form of vigilante justice isn't exactly right either. To me, it just smacks of childishness. It seems like you're taking the meager power you get with a jumpseat to control and let it go do your head. Because really, the jumpseat is the only authority you wield over these guys, you can't really keep them from getting hired (you can try, but I doubt you'll be successful) and for what purpose, so one more pilot has to take a substandard job to pay the mortgage? You're not going to be scablist-ID'ing at the local supermarket to slash their tires. You're not doing anything more than inconveniencing them. If you really wanted to punish a jumpseater, let him on then from 10,000 to 10,000 lecture him continuously about how much of a bastard he is for scabbing if you have the juevos (which I doubt most of the posters do). If you want to punish those guys, lobby congress in order to create legislation that sentences scabs (I mean real scabs, not any of the others) to some sort of punishment for crossing a picket line. Do something productive, but don't be a child in how you handle adult problems. Children look for retribution, adults look for solutions.
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Lecturing someone in a jumpseat is not good CRM.

ppragman said:
And even then, if all of the scabs on the list have been punished, and all of the GoJetters/Freedom A listers have been denied jobs for eternity, what will you have accomplished? You haven't made the profession better by punishing those who are going to act selfishly, you've made the profession worse. You've pushed pilots out of work, and reduced the quality of life for people. The exact things the union is trying to prevent among the non-pariahs in the community.
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I would say in that case by getting rid of the selfish pilots would make the profession better. I don't care about pilots that don't care about me or this profession.
 
Gonzo said:
To add to that the top half of the RJ CA's make 90+ at Eagle.
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Cool, that wasn't the point. I still have better QoL and pay than I would were I to leave AK and go to a "real" airline right now (e.g. Mesaba, Colgan, etc.) as an FO, and am home every night. PCL has told me before "don't join 121 because you don't think union/anti-union debate is all that professional/ you aren't safe/you're just a cessna driver and no nothing about the industry." And I was telling him off. More than an RJ driver? Nope, close to first yearers, but nope, you are correct, poor choice of words on my part. More than colgan captains, yep, more than mesaba SF340 captains, yep, more than others, yep. But its not about whose dong is bigger, I don't care about that, instead I'm tired of a guy whose harmed the industry telling me not to ever go 121. No offense to the rest of you, provided you haven't already taken offense, and if you have, my apologies.
 
ppragman said:
, more than mesaba SF340 captains, yep, more than others, yep. But its not about whose dong is bigger,
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Hey, if you are making $46 an hour at home with perdiem and a ALPA defense attorney at your fingertips for free rock on. I live in base and get 15 days off. That's enough for me. My goals probably arn't the same as yours.

<----Saab CA Mesaba

Careful, I think you just said your wang was bigger up there.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Hey, if you are making $46 an hour at home with perdiem and a ALPA defense attorney at your fingertips for free rock on. I live in base and get 15 days off. That's enough for me. My goals probably arn't the same as yours.

<----Saab CA Mesaba

Careful, I think you just said your wang was bigger up there.
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Home everynight, making $45/hr, free attorney, perdiem if I travel, and I know my boss by first name. Can't really complain. That being said, my wang isn't nearly large enough to drive the Saab ;)
 
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