Key Lime Air Piston Pay Raise

[Mike H]

Here's the thing... you can say I'm bitching and whining about KLA. Frankly your opinion doesn't really matter to me since you're doing exactly what you're trying to blame me for. However, in light of many of my friends losing thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to defend themselves from a scumbag operation like KLA, I have vowed to continue giving them a bad rep since I don't want to see it happen to any one else. Hell, I wouldn't even want you to work there. That's how much I dislike the company. So, as long as KLA posts ads on CT350, as long as Chuckie continues to say how great KLA is, as long as they are trying to recruit, I'll be there to say no, you REALLY don't want to do this. I'll be there to prevent unsuspecting pilots from making a huge mistake. Sure, I could just sit back, keep my mouth shut and watch the world burn. But when you can try to right the wrong, why do nothing?

Could be that, just maybe, Key Lime management reads the posts on this board. Could be this obsession you have with them is bordering on libelous. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. But if they're as sue-happy as you claim they are, don't you think you might be putting yourself in a position to hear from their lawyers?

 

[kiloalpha]

Could be that, just maybe, Key Lime management reads the posts on this board. Could be this obsession you have with them is bordering on libelous. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. But if they're as sue-happy as you claim they are, don't you think you might be putting yourself in a position to hear from their lawyers?

I know they read these boards, I know their POI reads these boards. Chuckie will probably print this all out and give it to the DO first thing tomorrow morning. But I'm not really scared. In order for it to be libelous or slanderous, it has to be untrue or false. Every thing I've said is true. There is no reason to lie. And I know for a fact, I am not the first person to talk about bad about KLA. I'm sure there's a letter floating around on JC too. jhugz might know.

 

[z987k]

I know they read these boards, I know their POI reads these boards. Chuckie will probably print this all out and give it to the DO first thing tomorrow morning. But I'm not really scared. In order for it to be libelous or slanderous, it has to be untrue or false. Every thing I've said is true. There is no reason to lie. And I know for a fact, I am not the first person to talk about bad about KLA. I'm sure there's a letter floating around on JC too. jhugz might know.

Not only would it have to be proven untrue, but malicious as well. It's clear that's not the case.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I had a friend who went to work there a few years ago. He seemed to enjoy it well enough. He was from the Denver area though.

 

[TallFlyer]

I had a friend who went to work there a few years ago. He seemed to enjoy it well enough. He was from the Denver area though.

Careful man, kilo is about to give you a pet name.

 

[Mike H]

Careful man, kilo is about to give you a pet name.

Excellent!

 

[jhugz]

Careful man, kilo is about to give you a pet name.

I hear you get a pet name everywhere you work, maybe it's just a "you" problem, and not a "him" problem. With your track record you'll piss off the wrong person at some point there and be out on your rear end. Then we will see what your attitude is like.

 

[Mike H]

I've never had pet name anywhere I ever worked. Nobody I ever worked with had one either.

I'm pretty sure kilo is wrong about libel having to be untrue. I believe it only has to be intended to do damage- which kilo pretty much admits. Truth is certainly a defense against libel or slander, but the burden of proof would be on kilo to prove it was true, not on Key Lime to prove it isn't.

 

[jhugz]

I've never had pet name anywhere I ever worked. Nobody I ever worked with had one either.

I'm pretty sure kilo is wrong about libel having to be untrue. I believe it only has to be intended to do damage- which kilo pretty much admits. Truth is certainly a defense against libel or slander, but the burden of proof would be on kilo to prove it was true, not on Key Lime to prove it isn't.

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about CJ.

 

[z987k]

I've never had pet name anywhere I ever worked. Nobody I ever worked with had one either.

I'm pretty sure kilo is wrong about libel having to be untrue. I believe it only has to be intended to do damage- which kilo pretty much admits. Truth is certainly a defense against libel or slander, but the burden of proof would be on kilo to prove it was true, not on Key Lime to prove it isn't.

Well you're wrong. Key lime has to prove the statement false, show there was intent to do damage AND that the statement was made without adequate research. The onus would be on them. All 3 as well. Just one is not enough.

 

[Mike H]

Well you're wrong. Key lime has to prove the statement false, show there was intent to do damage AND that the statement was made without adequate research. The onus would be on them. All 3 as well. Just one is not enough.

you're a lawyer? then you should know that the burden of proof is never on anyone to disprove something, right?

 

[z987k]

you're a lawyer? then you should know that the burden of proof is never on anyone to disprove something, right?

Well the defense doesn't have to. But in order for the people bringing the case to have one, they have to be able to show it's not true or it's not libel. Otherwise people could just go around claiming people said crap about them. Libel is really hard to prove. Almost impossible if you're a public figure. There is a reason for this.

Look into it. The three things I posted are what have been set as the standard as far as I'm aware.

This took about 1 min of googling

Proof of falsity required when media defendant addresses topic of public concern; regardless of public/private status of plaintiff. Hepps, 475 U.S. at 775-76.​

 

[TallFlyer]

Yeah, I heard you'll step on anyone and anything to get ahead... bad karma.

Yeah, because apparently you really can believe everything you read on the Internet, like your earlier Key Lime posts.

 

[TallFlyer]

I'll be there to prevent unsuspecting pilots from making a huge mistake. Sure, I could just sit back, keep my mouth shut and watch the world burn. But when you can try to right the wrong, why do nothing?

Serious question: were you wearing your Superman PJs when you posted this? Was that with or without the cape?

So, as long as KLA posts ads on CT350, as long as Chuckie continues to say how great KLA is, as long as they are trying to recruit, I'll be there to say no, you REALLY don't want to do this.

Ok, first show me where exactly I've gushed about how awesome KL is. I've gone on record saying it's a job and whenever my contract is up I'll be on to the next thing, hopefully back in AK. I've even been asked directly by our mean, evil, nasty DO about certain posts I've made to that effect, the same mean, evil, nasty DO who had the audacity to give me some time off this week to visit family. I mean really, the nerve of that guy....

Second, do you really think you're accomplishing anything? Consider two things:

1. How many guys on the ramp have even heard of JC or your alter ego sugarpop on APC? Not very many. How many new hires since you left have heard of JC or read what you have written? A big fat ZERO. Some effect you're having there aside from feeding your mastabatory ego trip.
2. How many guys on here, after seeing the tone that you take regarding Key Lime, do you think would really want to recommend you for any job? How many employers would want to hire you, knowing that you could go from loyal employee to enraged jihadist would want you on their payroll? Not many I'd wager.....

The truth is that there are plenty of disgruntled formers employees or lost of different outfits on here and every other aviation board, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them that I've read has shown more class than you.

The short version is Is that you and I have very different opinions about our time at Key Lime. You know a bunch of guys that have been sued, great, I don't know those guys. The guys I work with by and large like what they're doing. I really enjoy the flying. Some will stay, some will move on when they can. I personally feel I've been mostly treated with respect by my superiors. Sure, they don't always give me what I want, but it's a job. Yeah, the schedule sucks. Go blame UPS. I go when it's legal, I sit when it's not, and when it's broke I write it up, end of story.

If you really feel the need to keep following me around like some lost puppy then be my guest, but I'm done engaging you on this issue. I'm going to tell the truth from my perspective, and you'll have to forgive me if I'm somewhat of an optimistic, glass half full kinda guy. I'll even go on record as saying that I could be proven wrong in all this, but that's simply not the experience I've had thus far. Its's not been the experience ive seen others have this far. Quite frankly, it's been pretty much as you described it originally. You want to rag on me about that, then be my guest. You want to think you know all about me and where I'm coming from? Then be my guest. I'm done with you and your little sidekick.

 

[jhugz]

I'd recommend Keith for a job, and from Keith's knowledge of you along with others who have met you, I would not recommend you. So there's that.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

you're a lawyer? then you should know that the burden of proof is never on anyone to disprove something, right?

I'm not a lawyer either, but you should stop digging your own hole to fall into. A libel claim must prove with a preponderance of evidence that:
1) The written statement is false. It generally has to be a statement that is provably false, too.
2) The statement caused damages (monetary, emotional, possibly physical), otherwise there is no reason to sue
3) That the person either did it with intending to cause damage, or with a complete disregard for the truth.

I think kiloalpha's statements could easily be construed to "malicious" (test #3) but of the statements of fact that he is making (KLA sued/went after a previous employee, etc) that aren't opinions are easily verifiable and I think probably true. And the "damages" would be pretty weak -- less people came for jobs? Maybe?

I have no doubt that what kiloalpha has said about KLA is true. The only debate is to whether or not things have changed there, TallFlyer says they have but I would prefer to hear from someone who is not presently employed there but was recently.

But it doesn't much matter to me one way or another honestly, I would have to fall pretty far from grace to work there -- the pay is too low and the uncertainties are too great.

 

[TallFlyer]

I'd recommend Keith for a job, and from Keith's knowledge of you along with others who have met you, I would not recommend you. So there's that.

Good for you. Start a poll.

 

[Mike H]

I'm not a lawyer either, but you should stop digging your own hole to fall into. A libel claim must prove with a preponderance of evidence that:
1) The written statement is false. It generally has to be a statement that is provably false, too.
2) The statement caused damages (monetary, emotional, possibly physical), otherwise there is no reason to sue
3) That the person either did it with intending to cause damage, or with a complete disregard for the truth.

I think kiloalpha's statements could easily be construed to "malicious" (test #3) but of the statements of fact that he is making (KLA sued/went after a previous employee, etc) that aren't opinions are easily verifiable and I think probably true. And the "damages" would be pretty weak -- less people came for jobs? Maybe?

I have no doubt that what kiloalpha has said about KLA is true. The only debate is to whether or not things have changed there, TallFlyer says they have but I would prefer to hear from someone who is not presently employed there but was recently.

But it doesn't much matter to me one way or another honestly, I would have to fall pretty far from grace to work there -- the pay is too low and the uncertainties are too great.

fair enough.

how about we let this thread die finally? it's strayed pretty far from the subject of a pay raise

 

[kiloalpha]

Yeah, because apparently you really can believe everything you read on the Internet, like your earlier Key Lime posts.

Uh, yeah, what I've heard and/or talked to didn't come from the internet smart guy.

Serious question: were you wearing your Superman PJs when you posted this? Was that with or without the cape?

You should see me in cosplay.

Ok, first show me where exactly I've gushed about how awesome KL is. I've gone on record saying it's a job and whenever my contract is up I'll be on to the next thing, hopefully back in AK. I've even been asked directly by our mean, evil, nasty DO about certain posts I've made to that effect, the same mean, evil, nasty DO who had the audacity to give me some time off this week to visit family. I mean really, the nerve of that guy....

It's known that KLA is fat on piston pilots. Metro guys not so much. That's probably the only reason you were able to get time off. I've asked for time off before, usually only one day. Was I granted it? No. Explain to me how a pilot can call in sick and be denied time off to see a doctor? Unethical at best. The DO here has turned that place into a beyond-micromanaged airline. Overseeing every last detail. It's incredible what type of Gestapo he brings to the ramp, and not just to the pilots.

Second, do you really think you're accomplishing anything? Consider two things:

1. How many guys on the ramp have even heard of JC or your alter ego sugarpop on APC? Not very many. How many new hires since you left have heard of JC or read what you have written? A big fat ZERO. Some effect you're having there aside from feeding your mastabatory ego trip.

Yeah, okay Chuckie. You got me here. I'm on a total ego trip. As I've explained to other people about sites like JC or APC, it's a big 20,000+ member circle jerk. I feel bad for the people that get hired on there, not only do they have to serve at minimum at 12-month sentence, but they also have to put up with the likes of you. Everyone here knows not every pilot comes to these boards. But if I can deter at least one person from signing on the dotted line of that contract, then I've done my job. But again, why stop there.

2. How many guys on here, after seeing the tone that you take regarding Key Lime, do you think would really want to recommend you for any job? How many employers would want to hire you, knowing that you could go from loyal employee to enraged jihadist would want you on their payroll? Not many I'd wager.....

You got me again. What ever will I do when "future" employers look up a circle jerk of a website and see what I've written. Every HR person or owner or CP or DO of other airlines knows KLA. They know it's a scumbag operation. I know they won't hold it against me. However I know for a fact, I will not be looking for employment any time soon. I have things well in hand, including my own future in aviation. In fact, being my own boss is sounding really good right now, and oh, I'm sorry, do I need to interview for that position? Gee, I better shut up now.

The truth is that there are plenty of disgruntled formers employees or lost of different outfits on here and every other aviation board, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them that I've read has shown more class than you.

Again, you just refer to the boards. I am the voice of those who don't want to get involved arguing with KLA sympathizers. I honestly have nothing to lose. And besides, class is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously, you don't have any.

The short version is Is that you and I have very different opinions about our time at Key Lime. You know a bunch of guys that have been sued, great, I don't know those guys. The guys I work with by and large like what they're doing. I really enjoy the flying. Some will stay, some will move on when they can. I personally feel I've been mostly treated with respect by my superiors. Sure, they don't always give me what I want, but it's a job. Yeah, the schedule sucks. Go blame UPS. I go when it's legal, I sit when it's not, and when it's broke I write it up, end of story.

If you really feel the need to keep following me around like some lost puppy then be my guest, but I'm done engaging you on this issue. I'm going to tell the truth from my perspective, and you'll have to forgive me if I'm somewhat of an optimistic, glass half full kinda guy. I'll even go on record as saying that I could be proven wrong in all this, but that's simply not the experience I've had thus far. Its's not been the experience ive seen others have this far. Quite frankly, it's been pretty much as you described it originally. You want to rag on me about that, then be my guest. You want to think you know all about me and where I'm coming from? Then be my guest. I'm done with you and your little sidekick.

I know you know some of those pilots that have been served. There's no denying that. I don't know how you can go to say that you haven't seen other pilots go through what I've portrayed. Sure maybe you have gone through enough knee-pads that you're in the good graces of management, but that just makes you one of them. There will always be a battle between management and pilots. Just remember which side you're on, because management sure does.

I'd recommend Keith for a job, and from Keith's knowledge of you along with others who have met you, I would not recommend you. So there's that.

Thanks James, such as nice gesture. But you know my plan, it'd be hard to recommend me to myself! Haha!

fair enough.

how about we let this thread die finally? it's strayed pretty far from the subject of a pay raise

Wow, about time this guy made some sense.

 

[cmill]

The funny thing about two pilots arguing about who has more tact over the internet? They both look like they don't have any.